obat 34 Italy

brummbaer · #1 March 25th, 2007, 12:50 PM

About A-129 Mangusta.
units 503-504-505-907-908-909 Basic version entered service 10/90 (total 45).
Typical weapon configuration was the Attack Helo (unit 504) with 2 missile pods with 8 BGM-71D/E TOW 2 (weapon 175-176)or 6 AGM-114A Hellfire (weapon 178) plus 2 81mm Medusa rocket pods (weapon 185).
12.7mm gun pods for units 503-505 were available since 1/97, though I couldn't find a picture of such configurations, particularly with Stingers. Mistral missile was also implemented, but maybe this is just a duplication for the game.
I found no source about 51mm and 122mm rockets (units 907-908), but 70mm rockets instead yes (couldn't find in inventory).

A-129 EA-1 (units 506-507-508): don't know if this refers to the planned scout version, but this one was deleted from production in the 90s.
Same applies for A-129 EOA-3 unit 484.

New version is A-129 CBT, units 509-510, which entered service in 10/02 with 15 new helos and the older ones upgraded. This is the first version to mount fixed 12.7mm Gatling gun under chin, TOW 2B or Hellfire ATGM and 70 or 81mm rocket pods.

In the end:
units 503-505 unchanged, available 1/97-10/102;
unit 504 W1 8 TOW 2/2A or 6 Hellfire; W2 and W3 2x81mm Medusa, available 10/90-10/102; alternatively 4 Tow or 3 Hellfire in slots W1 and W2 and Medusa in slots W3 and W4;
unit 509 W1 12.7mm (weapon 180); W2 8 TOW 2B or 6 Hellfire; W3 and W4 2x81mm Medusa, available 10/102-12/120;
unit 510 W1 12.7mm (weapon 180); W2 4 TOW 2B or 3 Hellfire; W3 2x81mm Medusa; W4 4 FIM9 2A Stinger, available 10/102-12/120;
old and new version actually cohexisted for some time, but hard to determine how long.
units 484-506-507-508-907-908-909 to be deleted.
Sources: italian defence magazine and Googling "A-129 Mangusta".

Edit: forgotten 12.7mm gatling in slot Weapon 1 in units 509-510.

brummbaer · #2 May 2nd, 2007, 05:08 PM

Weapon 165: C90-CR-RB(M3). I can't find a single source saying that Italian Army has this AT rocket (spanish, right?), neither on the army website nor google. Don, any idea where does this come from?
thanks

DRG · #3 May 2nd, 2007, 05:57 PM

I have no idea. As far as I can tell that weapon has been in that OOB for years and it's used by 9 units. The guy who originaly drew that OOB up was in the Italian Airforce so if you think it needs to be removed you better be very sure of your info

Don

brummbaer · #4 May 2nd, 2007, 07:50 PM

I turned the question to an italian forum, but you can check the internet as much as me. I'll let you know what.

brummbaer · #5 May 3rd, 2007, 01:58 PM

Done some further research. Only the San Marco marine infantry have the C90etc, though couldn't find since when. They use it as light support weapon, together with the Panzerfaust 3.
It seems C90 was also evaluated for some time by Col Moschin Commando Battalion and Comsubin. Col Moschin then turned it off for the more powerful Panzerfaust 3 which is the standard AT infantry weapon today.

Also 500 french APILAS were bought for evaluation before PzF 3 adoption, and used to exhaustion by Folgore and some motorized infantry. I don't think this is worth to be entered in the oob, but just in case.
***
VBC wheeled infantry vehicle (units 041-078-089-200) is going to enter service in the next months. I'm still trying to find in which versions. Stay tuned.

Everything ok with the Mangusta? (above post)
regards

brummbaer · #6 May 3rd, 2007, 07:12 PM

I've seen only later that the 3.5 patch has already been released (great!

for you all involved), so I guess it's a bit too late. No problem, let's play with it now!

brummbaer · #7 November 16th, 2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

brummbaer said:
...New version is A-129 CBT, units 509-510, which entered service in 10/02 with 15 new helos and the older ones upgraded. This is the first version to mount fixed 12.7mm Gatling gun under chin, TOW 2B or Hellfire ATGM and 70 or 81mm rocket pods...

*patting my head* I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote this. The A129CBT is armed with a fixed 20mm gatling gun under the chin.
Sorry.

brummbaer · #8 November 16th, 2007, 03:49 PM

While playing a campaign with Italy in 1986 I found some incongruences. As usual I leave them here to Don and Andy attention.

Tank Companies, either with M60 or Leopard 1 are on 16 tank (1+ 3x5) well into the end of the '80s, also M47 was available at the time, but doesn't show up in the purchase screen.

Mechanized infantry and Bersaglieri should have same organization, with Bersaglieri more elite. And uniformely equipped with either VCC-1 or VCC-2, or M113 for infantry.

Alpini Companies are on three platoons.

unit 088 SPSAM Indigo MEI: not that I complain about having some of these, but what is it? I never heard of it and couldn't find any info on google.

units 124 and 134 M114 155mm howitzer was available till early '90s; let's say 1990 before army reorganization.

units 145-147-151: MLRS entered service in 10/1993 with 20 systems.

unit 141 M15 8" how was available till early '90s; let's say 1990 before army reorganization again.

PS is it just me or campaigns are more difficult than standard scenarios?

DRG · #9 January 7th, 2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

brummbaer said:
While playing a campaign with Italy in 1986 I found some incongruences. As usual I leave them here to Don and Andy attention.

Tank Companies, either with M60 or Leopard 1 are on 16 tank (1+ 3x5) well into the end of the '80s, also M47 was available at the time, but doesn't show up in the purchase screen.

******Were the five tank platoons in service at the same time as the four tank platoons or didn't the four tank platoons enter service until the late 1980's ?

Quote:

brummbaer said:

Alpini Companies are on three platoons.

***** Meaning what exactly ? the Alpini Companies in the game have two "regular" Alpini platoons and an Alpini engineer platoon.

Don

brummbaer · #10 January 8th, 2008, 10:23 PM

Don,
re tank platoons: the second you say. Transition from 5 to 4 was done sometime around 1990. It proves hard to draw a precise timeline, and the two platoons may have co-existed for a short time as in every transition. But as organizational TO&E in the '80s they were all on 5, and later both Leos and M60 were reduced to 4. M47 remained on 5 till final dismission in 1989.
re alpini: in 1980 companies are on 3 "assaltatori" platoons, i.e. regular alpini infantry, plus AT platoon and mortar platoon (6x81mm). Alpini engineers form a separate company under brigade command.
Ciao