Immortal Infantry - How raise HIT chance ?

[MajorDisaster]

OO I like this discussion :-) I've been trying the last few battles of a German long campaign with inf now on 70% toughness on both sides, cos I got so bored with hammering 200 man Russian infantry charges across open ground, with tanks, MG's and heavy mortars and they're losing 3 men a turn. I ran out of HE trying to kill them off and theyre still taking pot shots at my guys who are in cover, while they're supposedly pinned or retreating, and have several tonnes of lead falling on them. I guess my guys were greener to start with and that might explain a bit of it, but now most of them arent and even at 70%, infantry are still pretty tough cookies, especially from close range, high calibre HE. Stationnary Stug42 fires 3 rounds with 105mm at Russian infantry section moving at full speed at 50mtrs which pins them and that's it. Surely someone would have at least got wounded? At least now they dont charge full tilt across a field, taking no casualties and still managing to surpress tanks at 300 metre + ranges.
I'm sure it varies a helluva lot depending on nation, time of combat, experience etc... Absolutely agree that no-one(?) wants a "Tank V Inf= Inf Wiped Out" game, so 30% would be going way too far - they'd all be dying out having a few rude words shouted at them. But as said, even at 70% they are still well hard :-) Right, that's my tupenny worth...

[DRG]

MajorDisaster said:
OO I like this discussion :-) I've been trying the last few battles of a German long campaign with inf now on 70% toughness on both sides, cos I got so bored with hammering 200 man Russian infantry charges across open ground, with tanks, MG's and heavy mortars and they're losing 3 men a turn. I ran out of HE trying to kill them off and theyre still taking pot shots at my guys who are in cover, while they're supposedly pinned or retreating, and have several tonnes of lead falling on them. I guess my guys were greener to start with and that might explain a bit of it, but now most of them arent and even at 70%, infantry are still pretty tough cookies, especially from close range, high calibre HE. Stationnary Stug42 fires 3 rounds with 105mm at Russian infantry section moving at full speed at 50mtrs which pins them and that's it. Surely someone would have at least got wounded? At least now they dont charge full tilt across a field, taking no casualties and still managing to surpress tanks at 300 metre + ranges.
I'm sure it varies a helluva lot depending on nation, time of combat, experience etc... Absolutely agree that no-one(?) wants a "Tank V Inf= Inf Wiped Out" game, so 30% would be going way too far - they'd all be dying out having a few rude words shouted at them. But as said, even at 70% they are still well hard :-) Right, that's my tupenny worth...

Yes, we see reports like this from people new to the game every once in awhile and on the rare occasion we see a save game demonstrating this we test it and don't see what the fuss was about or it's the result of too many of one type of defence. Seriously, don't you think as designers if we tested the game and couldn't deal with the situations as described we wouldn't make changes ? We don't just code and toss things out "hoping for the best"

The preferences screen is there so people CAN change the character of the game by lowering or raising things like infantry toughness. You will even find people on this forum who have played fo some time who are playing at higher than normal infantry toughness settings. TRY a game at 30 toughness. It might suit your style of play better. Don't just assume that because it's "30" it's too low without at least playing 1 game that way.

Don

[dlazov]

100% is about average, I am thinking of moving up to 125% I've switched my campaigns to play at Harder (hardest -25% or whatever). Normal is just too easy.

Again, set it all to 100%, give your self and the AI 225 and select Jan 40 and pick the forces I selected at the beginning of this and you will see the KV-1 kill the Infantry pretty easily, of course if you run up to a bunch of woods and let the Crunchies hop on and load you with a demo charge you get what's coming.

When the DOS version was out I used to think the AI was hard, until I started to PBEM and got my *** kicked royally. I have not PBEM in a bout a year so I have been reckless with the AI, but still....

[RVPERTVS]

MajorDisaster said:
I ran out of HE trying to kill them off and theyre still taking pot shots at my guys who are in cover, while they're supposedly pinned or retreating, and have several tonnes of lead falling on them.

This is something I find hard to figure. I know is a matter of morale but I´ve learned that even when pinned or retreating, enemy infantry can still take shots at you, sometimes they even have an amazing high hit chance for their status, so my conclusion is that status report could be misleading, a lot of times I´ve seen a pinned/retreating squad inflicting casualties among my advancing troops.

Keep Cool
Roberto

[narwan]

Pinned guys fire back (usually). Retreating/routed guys don't.

Narwan

[RVPERTVS]

You´re right regarding routed squads. Unfurtunately I don´t have a saved game to prove my allegations but I could swear it happened last night for example when playing scenario No. 11, specifically with the british rifle squad inside the house at 31,18, those retreating MFs fired back at one of my squads closing into an adjacent hex. I´ll try to reproduce it.

But still, what "pinned" is suposed to mean then if they´re going to fire back almost normally? lower accuracy?

Keep Cool
Roberto

[Marek_Tucan]

From my observations, yes, lower accuracy. And less shot opportunities, esp. for secondary weapons once the unit took damage.

[RVPERTVS]

They´re still a threat at close distance though, I can tell you that from my observations.

[Marek_Tucan]

Of course, that' why they do bother firing But they are less likely to inflict serious casaulties when compared to ready troops.

[serg3d]

In my experience direct fire from tank or MG is effective enough to fix infantry in place. After that mortars or artillery can route it. At least in early Long Campaign Russia vs German experienced German infantry could be dealt with that way. It seems to me indirect fire is more effective vs infantry in the game engine.