OOB 06 France - Mech

[loktarr]

DRG said:
1)WHY are you comparing a wheeled IFV with tracked APC's ????
2)OK, when you come up with some hard data for me to look at, I will look at it.
Don

1)I agree with you that I don't have any "hard data" and that "everybody wants it's country toy to be better". But I never stated that I was sure about anything I said.
OK, comparing APCs and IFVs is not easy because they are different but I was just making some comparisons, that for me aren't stupid, because IFVs or APCs have a weight that depends mainly on their armor (i.e the amount of steel in it). Futher, VBCI is not an IFV but an AIFV*. That being said, it seems to me that a 14T AMX-10 should have less armor than a 26T VBCI. Maybe this difference is due to the turret? But if I'm not wrong the Drakkar turret is also on some AMX-10s; size and differences betwenn APCs and IFV could explain this, but 10T is a lot.

A better comparison could be the Piranha/LAV familly, 8x8 like the VBCI, 10 to 14T again. (as a reminder VBCI is 26 to 28T which is at least a x2)

*AIFV -> sources: NATO www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/other_pubs/aap_15.pdf
Not the same as IFV, which is VCI in french

2) Now, some datas, that certainly are not "hard", because none are when it's about military:
- VBCI is said by GIAT/NEXTER his builder to be certified OTAN STANAG 4569 Level 5
which means it resists 25mm APDS-TM-791 or TLB 073,Distance 500m, Velocity 1258 m/s, -> in game more than 6, that doesn't withstand it, even at 1000m.
(In game 25mm are from 8 to 11 afpds pen, with a 2 warhead).
Sources: Nexter + http://www.generalarmour.com/pagesGA...htm#stanag4569
- VBCI is said by the french ministry of defence (its buyer) to withstand 14,5mm and 25mm bullets (again!) and with added armor RPGs, and his gun is said to penetrate 8,5 mm steel at a range of 1000m.
Source:
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/defense/v...t_d_infanterie

Like you, I seriously doubt all of this...

Having no more evidence I don't ask you to change any value. And as I said in my first post, in order to avoid this post to be like it finally is, it isn't a big problem for me. My two posts about MBT-LAWs and VBCI were only some observations I made after some play against France and Germany.
Thank you for your answers
Respectfully
Loktarr

PS: I made a mistake in my first post: VBCI Eryx is already there, under the "VBC Eryx" name, starting in 2010. Sorry for that.

[loktarr]

As anybody the current formulas for penetration? I post here in order not to add a new thread.

[RecruitMonty]

"thickness in cm/cosine of the angle of slope from the vertical

example using T-34 glacis

4.5cm/0.5 = 9cm"

[loktarr]

Thank you RecruitMonty but in fact I was asking for in-game formulas , sorry if it wasn't clear.

[Urban]

Juste for help :

VBCI use the same composite modular armor as the Leclerc MBT (titanium, hardened steel and various other classified compound of course).The armor is evolutive and can be adapted to the threat.
The vehicle weigth 18 tons, 28 tons it's with the full load capacity (lot of stuff).

Maybe a LIC (Low Intensity Conflict) and a full scale battle could be a solution to your problem

[Shan]

Adding to the French OOB --- something I read today:

Caesar 155mm truck-mounted SPH in only being introduced right now: That would be units 50 + 51 in this OOB. The ISD should be corrected to late 2008 (now 1/2006), if you follow this source:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi...modele=release