Open-Ended Tech Levels?

Eric Bamberg · #1 January 19th, 2002, 02:42 AM

Shyrka, what you describe is exactly what I was thinking. I've never seen a 4X game where technology works like that, although chewy027 says he's working on one. I'd be very interested in seeing it when it's ready.

I figured that it probably wasn't possible to mod SEIV to have infinite tech levels. It's a fundamental change in how the tech system works. I wonder if it would be considered for SEV, though.

It's been suggested that ship sizes could increase to the point where they would be too big to be practical. That is a possibility, although I think that could be controlled by economic issues, especially in a finite resources game.

This discussion has made me interested in creating a not-infinite-but-still-pretty-darn-big tech mod. Ideally, I'd like to include not only extensive levels of technology, but a tremendous variety of technologies. Of course, I've never created a mod before (in fact I've only been playing the game for a few months) so it's not something I can see whipping up over the weekend. There are so many things to consider... how to make the tech interesting, how to balance it so that research doesn't eclipse all other considerations in empire management... I can hear the wheels spinning already.

Eric

Fyron · #2 January 19th, 2002, 03:28 AM

MOO2 had infinite tech levels. Each tech level would make the stuff in that tech tree a little bit smaller, so you could put more stuff in the same amount of space, thereby making weapons and such more powerful with each new tech level.

geoschmo · #3 January 19th, 2002, 03:57 AM

You know I have heard that about MOO2 before. I never played it. (Although a friend handed me the disk today. I shall check it out soon, just out of curiosity.)

How is it practical for this to go on for ever? I mean dont you reach a point where the size of the comp is equal to whatever unit of size is used for components? There has to be some point at which you have say, "that's small enough"

Geo

Krsqk · #4 January 19th, 2002, 04:40 AM

Funny you should mention that.

Take a look at the basic tech mod, which is still in the old downloads section. I started it quite a while ago, but came to the conclusion that it would be too time consuming to complete by hand. The research structure was three-dimensional. For missiles, you could research launchers to reduce reload time, missiles to increase seeker speed and range, and warheads to increase damage and seeker dmg resistance. Most armors have a similar setup with 10 or even 15 levels per dimension. Most research only gives incremental benefits; I didn't think a DUC LXXXVI needed to have 5280 damage.

Recently, I've been working on developing a program to automate the generation of components, from 1-dimensional research to x-dimensional research. You input tech reqs, a base level for things like tonnage space and structure, cost, supply usage, ability values, etc., and give a rate of increase (or decrease) applied to the component at level up based on the levels of each technology. I'm currently working on making it a Windows-based program instead of crummy text,

which is an interesting task since I've never Windows programmed before. Actually, I've never even attempted a program of this scale before, so it's been...challenging. When completed, it will allow anyone to quickly create as many levels of Component X as you could possibly want in the time it would take to create two or three levels by hand. If anyone's interested, let me know; this is definitely in progress, and isn't going to be completed in the next day or two (suicide_junkie, I don't know how you do it!

), but I'll keep plugging away until it's done. Then, I just might get that Basic Tech Mod done.

[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

Eric Bamberg · #5 January 19th, 2002, 04:47 AM

MOO2 does have infinite tech levels, but as you might expect the benefits (except for final score) stop eventually. Components do reach a minimum size which I think is more than just 1 of whatever unit of measure the game uses. I tried playing MOO2 again a few weeks ago and just couldn't get into it. It seemed so limited and boring; I guess SEIV has spoiled me.

Eric

geoschmo · #6 January 19th, 2002, 05:02 AM

Ack! So you can keep researching but you get nothing for it? LOL. That would be easy to mod. Just add a tech area of "General Research" to the research areas text file. Give it what ever the maximum allowable number for Maximum Level is. I am not sure what that is exactly. Should be able to work it out by trial and error. My guess is 255.

Then no components that need that as a prereq. You would get no tech from the research,but you would get a small bump in your score every time you reached another level since tech levels are factored into yoru score.

Geo

Suicide Junkie · #7 January 19th, 2002, 07:03 AM

quote:
(suicide_junkie, I don't know how you do it!)

I do what is easy, and make the user do the rest

Hehe. In general it works quite well, since you make the computer to the boring repetitions, and the user does the complicated thinking.
The result isn't commercial grade, but it is just a tool, and it works. "Build the axe, not the Tinman"