Pale one soldier-attack 8/old age

Xietor · #1 April 21st, 2007, 02:25 PM

that does not help you if you have an army of double blessed vans at your capital on turn 5.

Endoperez · #2 April 21st, 2007, 02:58 PM

Early Age Agartha has boulder-throwing Ancient Ones. Unfortunately, they are too expensive and fragile to be of much use, much like their Jotun counterpart.

Pale Ones of Agartha have many abilities that make them better than humans: need not eat, good magic resistance, high strength and hp, natural armor, darkvision, siege bonus, ability to go underwater and long maxage. This is balanced by their low attack and defense skills, their cold-bloodedness (more encumberance in Cold provinces) and the fact that they only have one eye (more suspectible to Eye Shields, Vision's Foes and just plain battle afflictions).

Pale One Soldier isn't inferior to his human counterpart due to being of a different race, but due to using much worse equipment. Short Sword lets the humans deal just as much damage as Pale One does with a spear, and the spear's repel ability is useless because Pale Ones only rarely manage to hit an attacker. Instead of using big shields that'd help them to negate their lower defence, Pale Ones use small bucklers, and instead of chain mail, Pale Ones use inferior scale mail.

Even now they have their uses, due to being tougher, bigger, and thanks to them not eating and being able to breath under water. Pale Ones have trouble killing their enemies and won't be able to survive for much longer than normal humans, however, so they don't have many uses.

Dedas · #3 April 21st, 2007, 03:32 PM

With fear of repeating myself, try to use them in combination with magic; which in turn means do not use them alone early on.
When playing EA Agartha I see them only as "meat shields" in the beginning (before any defense reducing spells). They are there to let the Troglodytes (which are expensive) get to the archers and commanders. Later on I use them (as I wrote above) with "Weight of stones", "Terror" (they have good MR) and so on.
Without Troglodytes, as is the case with MA and LA Agartha, you should not use the pale ones early on. They do a much better job when they have some magic to back them up.

Some tips:
You could try an awake Risen Oracle who starts with both death and earth and let him deal out the damage whilst the pale ones protects him.
When I play I pretty much let him cast "fists of iron" which is devastating for almost any foe in close combat, especially when you have high earth magic. Combine this with a reasonable death magic skill (+ to fear) and you can rout a much bigger force. Which finally enables your pale ones to kill something easily (-4 to defense).

Xietor · #4 April 21st, 2007, 03:43 PM

I am talking MA argatha.

The extra benefits you mention of the pale one soldier, like being amphibian, offer no benefit when they are used in post 20 pd. They seem to be a weak unit for pd.

I am not sure what units early in the game, and before you have many spells, national summons, Argatha is supposed to use to fight off high defense blessed troops like vans, white centaurs, that attack you early in the game?

Talking about dark vision and such is nice, but not on turn 5 lol.

Dedas · #5 April 21st, 2007, 03:53 PM

Well, the Vans are to be toned down in the next patch as almost every nation have problem with them early on, MA Agartha is no exception.

But as I wrote, do not use the pale ones early on as they pretty much suck without backup magic or thugs. They are for later game or taking water provinces. Instead focus on getting the most out of their human infantry.

Another thing, MA Agartha is a pretty weak nation in early game, so you really need to research defensive spells and the like. Do not anger your neighbors until you have summons and support magic for you pale ones.

Xietor · #6 April 21st, 2007, 05:06 PM

actually Pangaea(the race i play most)can hold off vanaheim's double blessed vans early in the game, as can races with size 6 tramplers. I think Ermor also could with its sacred undead unit, if properly blessed.

But you are right, many nations cannot stop a double blessed van early in the game.

Sir_Dr_D · #7 April 21st, 2007, 05:56 PM

I like the Pales ones Low attack. It adds a lot of flavour.

What Agartha needsd to be balanced is their starting province to be cave province. Then it would be hard for anyone to attack them.

vfb · #8 April 21st, 2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Endoperez said:
Pale One Soldier isn't inferior to his human counterpart due to being of a different race, but due to using much worse equipment.

Nah, I think the one-eyed attribute messes with their depth perception, that's why Pale Ones have horrible attack skill.

Dedas · #9 April 22nd, 2007, 06:29 AM

Also more than horrible precision (7).

Have any of you tried EA Agartha's "wet ones" in water? For me it was a bit of a surprise, and now I actually only use those instead of "pale one" in the water.

danm · #10 April 22nd, 2007, 01:12 PM

I don't use the "small" pale ones anywhere in EA or MA given the choice (PD being the obvious "no choice" situation)

I'm ok with the "flavor" of them being slow and clumsy... but I'd like if they were a bit more durable than they are. Their extra hitpoints just dont seem to translate into extra survival on the battlefiled.

not too much, because i do think they're supposed to be a BIT underwhelming, but currently I find them to be darn near useless.