Flail wielding troops - too few ?

Yrkoon · #1 April 27th, 2007, 07:03 AM

Hi

I was wondering if you thought there were too few troops armed with flails/morningstars. I love flails/morningstars (they negate shields) but most nations don't have any. Except Abyssia, and Ulm in some eras - not all. I'm probably missing some, but not many.

Some goes with indies. Apart from the knights in MA and mostly LA, no troops have flails.

Don't you think there should be more of them ? They would be a great addition to gameplay. Right now troops with shield have a huge advantage because of the missile protection and higher defense. Flails change that : they trash shields. It would balance things out. High defense troops would no longer be so good in all circumstances (think ... vanheim or troops with tower shields).

Dedas · #2 April 27th, 2007, 07:05 AM

Morningstars also got the "flail" bonus. They don't have two attacks though but do double the damage.

Sombre · #3 April 27th, 2007, 07:07 AM

Marignon has flaggies. Ermor and pythium have those gladiator units with flails,...

I think there are others, maybe more than you realise.

Yrkoon · #4 April 27th, 2007, 07:08 AM

Ha, I realise I forgot to mention morningstars in my thread. I had them in mind too. Thanks for pointing it out Dedas. I'll change my 1st post.

Arralen · #5 April 27th, 2007, 07:25 AM

"Flail" bonus does not mean "ignore shields" any more - that was in Dom2.
Straight from the newest version of the mod manual ... :

4.24 #flail
The weapon has an attack bonus against shields.

sry ..

Dedas · #6 April 27th, 2007, 07:49 AM

Yes, and the bonus is +2 to attack skill. But that isn't so bad as it sounds though when you are fighting against someone equipped with a shield. For example:

Black Plate Infantry
10 attack skill base
11 attack skill with flail or morningstar
13 attack skill against shield equipped foe

Juzza · #7 April 27th, 2007, 09:20 AM

Theres quite a few troops with Flails, everyone 'can' get flaigrents, from random events, ulm has them in the middle age, abysia has them all the way through, some of the indipent Knights can have morningstars, but it's not a huge amount, considering say the amount of short swords or broad swords, even daggers they aren't particularly common.

Gandalf Parker · #8 April 27th, 2007, 06:24 PM

I thought there were too many. It doesnt seem as if flail was historically that common to most nations was it? (yeah I know, its an RPGer answer instead of a player answer)

Evil Dave · #9 April 27th, 2007, 07:23 PM

Well... flail-like weapons are known in both Europe and Asia as peasant weapons. Not many armies used them, apparently because using them really well requires a lot of training. The only European army to use them in significant numbers were the Hussites in the Hussite wars (an early war of religion). The Hussities might be a model for Flagellants, as they were zealots who fought w/ two-handed flails and whose only armor was padded shirts and leggings.

I once asked the Higgins Amory Museum folks about what we know of flails, and the answer is "Not much.". Most of European martial arts was with swords, knives, or pole weapons, and the one old book that talks about flails seems to have been written by a guy who never actually saw one. (See "peasant weapon".)

Yrkoon · #10 April 28th, 2007, 04:49 PM

Dominions doesn't strike me as a game too focused on historical accuracy. I mean - dragons, titans, fiery men ?

I see what you mean though : many nations have troops from a medieval setting, even if the leaders are more from a fantasy background.

I would like to see more indies with morningstars though. It would add variety and a reason to recruit indies. Generally, national troops do the same things as they do, but better or cheaper.