RE: "Upgrade" options between Dominion series.

[SlipperyJim]

Gooles said:
Because of this, I would wish you'd consider an "upgrade" option. As in, if you can provide a valid serial key (only can be used once of course), you would be charged a reduced rate of only $20 to $30 since a good portion of the game is reused.

I'm not sure if there's any precedent for this in the gaming world. I own a licensed copy of Civ3, and I didn't get any discount on Civ4. I own both the original Pirates! and the remade Pirates! Gold, but that didn't get me a discount on the new(ish) Pirates! game....

Okay, so Microsoft offers upgrade pricing on their Windows and Office software (and perhaps a few others). But I don't think that any game company offers upgrade pricing. I'm not saying that they can't do it. Obviously, they can. However, I can't think of any game companies who do offer it.

And I think I know why. An operating system costs hundreds of dollars. Microsoft Office also costs hundreds of dollars. Most games (including Dom3) cost about $50. To me, that says the gaming industry runs on lower overhead than Microsoft. If the overhead is lower, then there's less flexibility on pricing. After all, JK & KO have to eat, right?

IANAMBA (I Am Not An MBA), so my analysis could be wrong. In which case, I'll refer you back to MaxWilson's excellent point: $50 is quite a bargain for a game that has as much staying power as Dom3. I have spent a good bit more than that on Civ4 (including buying the expansion), and Dom3 has given me a lot more entertainment for my money.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well J and K have other jobs than this that they live off of.
But Shrapnel has to eat

I dont think that Dom3 could have been done as an upgrade. It might seem like small changes but I dont think that any of the files were unchanged so it wouldnt be just a little download to "upgrade" from dom2 to dom3.

I agree though that the price isnt all that much as far as I can see. I buy many games at that price or higher which last maybe a month on my machine. The doms have always laster for years and only get replaced by the next dom.

Gandalf Parker

[Sombre]

I believe there have been a few games where owning the original netted you a discount on a sequel. It's hard for me to remember the exact titles, but I recall the second Unreal Tournament title (2004?) offered this deal, at least in the UK.

Showing you own a copy of Age of Wonders 2 might also have netted a discount for the sequel Shadow Magic, but that one I'm less sure of.

[Meglobob]

I really, really don't agree with the original poster. $50 for dom2 then $50 for dom3 a few years later is a small price to pay.

I compare computer games to other forms of entertainment and computer games like dominions because of there vast replayability win everytime. Your money partly ensures the continued development of Dominions, if too many people pirate it, no more Dominions ever...

Dom 4 is probably I assume along way off, I would love in the meantime an expansion if Illwinter/Shrapnel was so inclined.

[Gooles]

I actually got the idea from a game called Wall Street Raider where updates (which are usually major additions to the game, higher res. options, etc) are only $7 as compared to the $20 to originally purchase. It's not that I can't afford the game, it's just other games with much higher costs in production are cheaper to purchase. Upon rethinking it though, I suppose bigger isn't better and that dev. quality is what counts.

I'd also though, like to elaborate on my original statement in that my main concern was that we pay the same amount of money for a game in which many of the game's elements have been recycled from a game I already have paid for.

Edi said:
Gooles, that admission of having pirated Dominions just got you in potentially big trouble where participation in these forums is concerned. Expect to be contacted via more private channels really soon.

=/ I'd find it morally asinine to ban me from forums (or worse if much care is truly felt necessary) for admitting I pirated (and then purchased) a game. I often take a try before I buy approach and will defend my stance always (I pirated and purchased Wall Street Raider too for the record). I admire your concern though.

(Sorry for updating so many times)

[Edi]

I happen to disagree with the so-called "Try before buy" approach on ethical grounds, especially given the existence of demos and given that Dom3 is not the first but second sequel which is fairly similar to its predecessors.

That aside, given that I'm a moderator here, it is my duty to bring threads like this to the attention of the board administration, who generally happen to take a fairly harsh view of piracy and will therefore likely have words with you if nothing else. I just pointed that out. Given that you bought the game, a ban is not an automatic outcome, unlike in the instances of outright piracy, of which we have had some. All of THOSE people were summarily booted out.

Just so that we are clear on this. I do not set policy and I can't ignore the mod duties.

[MaxWilson]

Edi said:
I happen to disagree with the so-called "Try before buy" approach on ethical grounds, especially given the existence of demos and given that Dom3 is not the first but second sequel which is fairly similar to its predecessors.

At first I thought you were criticizing the existence of demos, which would be disappointing to me because by the time I really decided to try out Dominions, Dominions 2 (the one I had originally heard of and intended to try) was no longer being sold, just the demo for Dominions 3, so starting with the earlier edition was a no go. Knowing what I now know about the difference between 2 and 3 I'm glad I started with 3. But, that's not what you were talking about.

-Max

[Gandalf Parker]

Gooles said:
I'd also though, like to elaborate on my original statement in that my main concern was that we pay the same amount of money for a game in which many of the game's elements have been recycled from a game I already have paid for.

Personally I PREFER it that way. I get really irritated when I like a game and buy the next version only to discover that it has nothing at all to do with the previous game.

And the recycling has little to do with the cost anyway. Just about everything in the game went thru major changes. I dont think that any of the games code, interface, graphics, sound wasnt reworked and upgraded not to mention the tons of new things added. About the only "recycled" thing is the concept of the game which I am very happy they didnt change.

[Gooles]

meh, I feel like I'm getting mean here, but much of the game is recycled, and my point is that I've already paid for much of this code once.
Specific Changes:
*Outstanding soundtrack
*Main UI was ever-so-slightly changed, new color (though I downloaded a mod to make the UI a nice shade of blue)
*A few cool new pieces of eye candy (light effects, new spells =new spell graphics. New units received new sprites. Oh, and grass.)
*Great new race-specific spells add another feeling of customization
*A major blow to micromanagement with automatic tax adjustment
*(Not particularly fond of this one)Units are now shown in scaled down form to represent an army on a map instead of a scaled sized red square.
*Few new items
*Automatic "hosting" of turns when a turn is ended.
*In exchange for customizing race with "ages" and castle types, you can now play all ages with terrain dependent castles.
*Three new races
*Bug fixes from Dom2
*built in random map generator (which seldom places me in a home province in which you are unable to move out of via land units. Still an excellent feature though.)
*Aging (or at least more obvious)
*New age
*I believe there were new combat tactics options added
*Maybe some changes to multiplayer? Not sure, mostly stick to SP.

Things copied from Dom2 (non-specific for sake of my time):
*Majority of UI
*Combat mechanics
*Couple maps copied.... I think (Mods fix)
*Great majority of spells and their effects (Notably lack of additions to "wish" spell)
*Majority of pretenders (mods fix this again though, especially the one that updates pretenders' sprites that I can't seem to find anymore. If you know where it is, I'd really really appreciate a link to it)
*Sprites for old units
*Majority of the items
*Many special sites
*Arena matches are the same (less graphics, where light effects molest my PC on very high battle gfx setting)
*Nothing interesting added to alchemy
*Score chart & hall of fame almost completely the same (less how score chart works when a nation loses)
*random events for the most part, are the same
*diplomacy (ha.)
*Mercenaries
*Blood slaves

Now, these changes are great. Adding to an already good game only makes it better, but it doesn't make it a new game.

[Gandalf Parker]

Sorry but I was on the beta team and watched a year of upgrading to those "copied" items. Such as combat mechanics, the old maps, pretenders, sprites, items, sites, events, mercs. We put our input in on it and things were changed.

The only ones you mentioned that I dont remember changes on are blood slaves, diplomacy (thank god), alchemy, wish (what in the world would you add to that?)

If you wanted a COMPLETE rewrite then it wouldnt be a new version. It would be a new game.