Mod: Vaettiheim 2.2

[llamabeast]

Awesome, good stuff Sombre. I had a chance to take a quick peek, and the new graphics are really good. I won't have a chance to have a proper play till Monday unfortunately though, so I'll try to post some comments then.

[llamabeast]

I lied unfortunately, it's been a hectic evening. I've had a brief look, but will spend some more time on it before I post comments.

[llamabeast]

Okay, time for the periodic Llama Vaetti Commenting.

I'll go through the units in order.

Vaetti: Fine, of course.

Archer: You've increased their price? I think 8 was fine. They are, after all, fundamentally worse than human archers - worse morale and precision. Also being size 1 is a disadvantage for archers - they will rarely fight in melee (and will still die when they do), but AOE spells will kill them in droves.

Netter: Really nice, the sprite is very good too.

Groundbreaker: I think giving them a shield was more than a sufficient buff, I would be inclined to change their weapon back to a pick axe. Their main problem before was that they died too easily, but the shield amply fixes this. Now they're just superior to the spearmen in pretty much every way. I can form no opinion on the change in price though (I think they have gone from 12 to 11 gold). With a pick axe though, I think they will be really nice (and it's nice to have the attributes fitting the sprite closely too). Low attack, but the size 1 will counteract that. And they will have a lot of punch.

Wolf rider, werewolf: Still all good.

Moose riders: These still seem useless to me. I had an idea, I can't remember if I mentioned it: how about giving them a one-off lance-style 'Moose charge'? That way they could be useful in melee without being overpowered, and it seems thematic too. Otherwise I can't really think what you can do for them - they already have lots of hitpoints, more protection wouldn't make sense, and nor would more attacks. A charge would be funky though. I think these should be really fun units, but unless I'm missing a trick they're just not useful at the mo. Although I realise they're even worse for Jotunheim.

Trolls: Still all good.

Speros: These guys are awesome. A huge improvement over the old draconians. The graphics for them are really really nice too - I build them just to look at them. I really like the idea of the diving spear strike as well. I think they are a bit underpriced though - it feels as if I would be better off not building vaetti at all (I might be being silly here, not sure). Flyers should probably pay a heavy penalty in cost for their mobility I think. Hmm. Maybe 26? I'm not sure. The Abysian demonbreds are only 20, but while stronger, they're missing 2 protection, 2 defence and the spear strike.

Wolf trolls and exile guard: Still good, too.

Commanders: The sorceror is very nice indeed. Thanks for considering the idea, and good work on improving it. I do think he may be a little cheap, although the more I think about it the more I think cheap is sensible (they're unreliable on account of their randoms, and have old age). Maybe 120-130?

Spero chief - Fine, nice.

Forest troll shaman - Good, just right I think. A little expensive perhaps. They should be rare-ish, but being capital-only already achieves that. He also looks a bit mutant, but then I think he comes from an in-game sprite? I think of all the units this one is definitely most in need of redrawing Sombre-style, if it appeals to you to do it of course.

Gygja - Am I right in thinking they used to be 280? 340 seems very steep indeed, since they aren't really especially good. I know they're meant to be rare compared to MA Jotunheim, but I think that again that's achieved by making them capital only. I would probably leave them at 280 I think.

I hit end turn a lot of times, till i got the Crescent Hermit. He's lovely, I really like him. Good stuff.

Once again, I absolutely love this mod. Thanks Sombre!

[Sombre]

The difference you're seeing is between CBM Vaetti and vanilla Vaetti. That accounts for the price 'changes', anyway. If you go over to the CBM version you'll find the prices remained much the same as in our duel.

I can pump up the price of Spero and add a bit to the Sorcerer too. I was a bit unsure of their costs to be honest.

As for the groundbreaker - I want them to mostly be a siege unit that you can use as heavier infantry. I can give them a new pick weapon, but since pickaxes are two handed, I can't give them the regular one with the shield as well. I dropped their siegebonus somewhat. I'll change the axe for a one handed vaetti pick of some kind, maybe put the gcost up a touch.

The Forest Troll is actually my own graphic,.. BUT, it's the first graphic I ever did for Dom3. I've probably improved a bit since then. I can redo it, maybe this weekend.

I'll drop the Gygja price for the vanilla version, but not much lower. 300 maybe. In CBM Vaetti they remain 260. I suggest you go check out the CBM version - when available it's the version I pay most attention to balance for.

[llamabeast]

Aha. Okay, I half wondered if it was that. Balance in the non-CBM version is good too though, being as for whatever reason most people don't play CBM (I've only ever played it in our duel).

So does CBM have cheaper mages? I thought archers would be more expensive? In any case 9 sounds too much to me for a vaetti archer (non-CBM), but I seem to have suddenly become a nitpicking monster, so please ignore me!

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude about your forest troll - but I think in that case you have improved a very great deal.

The groundbreaker plan sounds like a good one.

What do you think about the mooses?

[Sombre]

Archers in CBM aren't increased in price, they just have slightly nerfed bows. In the case of the vaetti is actually a larger nerf; they get the crude shortbow instead of the regular one, which itself is a bit weaker. I think they're 8 in the cbm version, same as spears.

I am sort of stuck with the moose unit, because it's already improved from the MA Jotunhiem original. I think it can be useful sometimes, so I'm going to leave it as is.

I'm not bothered about the troll ;] I know I've improved a lot and I'm not an artist, just a hobbyist I suppose. I was proud of him as a first effort at the time, but he does look like some weird slime fraggle now. I'll do a quickish graphical mod job based on the forest troll sprite probably.

Finally, it isn't that CBM has cheaper mages across the board, just that in CBM cruddy units are made viable. In the case of the VAetti, for the CBM version I wanted them to be competative, on level footing with random vanilla LA sides. The vanilla Vaetti however I wanted to follow the spirit of the original sample mod and make them underpowered. Now maybe it's time to bring the two versions closer together.

This weekend I'll make he vanilla one properly balanced, as the CBM one is.

[llamabeast]

Sweet Sombre, I'm happy. The new forest shaman looks really great.