New Cold War 2020 mod release! (RC 0.4)

[RecruitMonty]

Ok, the download went well as did everything else. Once again I would like to say top job. Expect an update from m on the mod (Das Reich) soon.

[MarkSheppard]

Okay some suggestions on RC 0.4

US Army:
Is there even a plausible need for the Strkyer? Suggest you delete it from the US Army OBAT for RC 0.5, because what's the point of it when you have the M-8 Buford AGS in service; and there's no mania for a lightweight combat team?

Remember. ****shenski kept harping on about how the "cold war legacy force" was obsolete and so we needed a mobile "objective interim force" to replace it....with the cold war still going on in 1999 and 20007; will Shinkenski ever get such idiot ideas?

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All M163A2 Vulcans (Unit 208) would have long been retired before 2007; and replaced with Bradley Linebackers.

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LOSAT would have entered service on Humvees and on LOSAT Bradley.

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USAF B-52s most likely would have been selectively retired beginning in the 2000s with a full production run of 132 B-2s (and perhaps more); making the B-2 a cheaper unit in terms of picklist cost

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The USAF F-22; hmm, I'm assuming it IOCs in 1995, as a pure fighter, with no budget delays, programmatic restructurings; etc.

This also means that it never really aquires the "air to ground" mission it acquired in our timeline to get congress to fund it during it's protracted development, so the F-22 really doesn't have any real strike fighter role, except strafing the ground with 20mm and dropping perhaps 1 or 2 iron bombs; until about 2000; or so, when funding is allocated for the F-22C (F-22B is two seat trainer) to turn it into an all weather aircraft.

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A-10 Warthog

Suggest you rename units:

151, 158, 870 and 917 to A-10A Warthog

871 to A-10C Warthog (representing a complete systems upgrade of the A-10 to have thermal imagery, etc etc)

Create a new "A-10B FAC" unit based on this



to stand in between unit 557 (air OP spotter) and 562 (Predator UAV)

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F-14 Tomcat is replaced from 2000s onward with the Naval Advanced Technology Fighter



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F-35......would it EVEN exist as we know it in a Continued Cold War?

The Joint Strike Fighter Program came about because of a 1993 defense review which said that each service doing their own tactical aviation programs wasn't affordable, and cancelled the USAF's Multi-Role Fighter (MRF) and the USN's Advanced Strike Aircraft (A/F-X), to create the JSF.

Obviously, with the commies still around, cost is no object.

So lets look at both the programs which gave birth to the JSF:

The USAF wanted the Multi-Role Fighter (MRF) program (begun in 1991) as a relatively low-cost F-16 replacement. Similar in size to the F-16, the MRF was to have been a single-seat / single-engine aircraft, with a unit flyaway cost in the range of $35 to $50 million.

So this most likely WOULD be built, looking I would imagine very similar to Lockheed Martin's X-35 entry, but designated F-24....which is what Lockheed was calling it; they got really pissed about the F-35 designator.

Meanwhile, the US Navy after the A-12 was cancelled along with the NATF; created the A/F-X program; an advanced, “high-end,” carrier-based multi-mission aircraft with day/night/all-weather capability, low observables, long range, two engines, two-crew, and advanced, integrated avionics and countermeasures. The Air Force participated in this new program from its initiation, still seeking a replacement for the F-111 and, in the longer term, the F-15E and F-117A.

With the A-12 not being cancelled....the Navy wouldn't even create the A/F-X program.

I would imagine that the aging F-15Es, F-111s, and F-117As in CWC verse get replaced with your FB-22 (which is already in).

[MarkSheppard]

There's also a bunch of other what ifs:



From the 70s, but you can probably use the concept somehow...

[MarkSheppard]

Now for some commie what ifs!




Mikoyan Product 101
Crew: 2
Take-off Distance: 150 m
Range: 2,700 km at 530 km/h
Range: 800 km at 670 km/h
Engines: Two Klimov TV7-117SV turboprops of 1,864 kW each
Payload: 3,600 kg

A competition for a COIN aircraft similar to the American OV-10 Bronco was initiated in 1980 to meet the demands of the war in Afghanistan. The Mikoyan proposal designated izdelye 101 won against designs from Sukhoi and Ilyushin. Interest in the COIN aircraft later faded, however, and the 101 was transformed into the 101N, 101NP, and 101N.

[PlasmaKrab]

Mark, thanks a lot for all the feedback and ideas!
My US OOB will need a full-scale facelift in the near future anyway, so glad you can help.
Just a few words on most of the points:

Is there even a plausible need for the Stryker? Suggest you delete it from the US Army OBAT for RC 0.5, because what's the point of it when you have the M-8 Buford AGS in service; and there's no mania for a lightweight combat team?

Well, I have kept the Strykers for now, but I was considering a new icon series and a whole new identity. The need for light deployable brigades would still be here no matter what, but I may go for a more sophisticated (think Piranha-IV or Pars/Colonel) design and remove the whole "interim" backstory that's still supposed to remain attached to the Stryker (as in Interim Armored Vehicle).

All M163A2 Vulcans (Unit 208) would have long been retired before 2007; and replaced with Bradley Linebackers.

I'm keeping it up alongside the other basic M-113 series (until 2010 or so, Reserve and NG included), to balance the unbearable cost of the Bradley/block-III equivalents.

LOSAT would have entered service on Humvees and on LOSAT Bradley.

Currently considering the Buford-based version, Bradley is an option if there remains room in the OOB. It will also depend on my ability to come up with either a Buford icon series or decent Bradley derivates.

USAF B-52s most likely would have been selectively retired beginning in the 2000s with a full production run of 132 B-2s (and perhaps more); making the B-2 a cheaper unit in terms of picklist cost

Good point, but not much incidence since the level bombers are player-only units. So keeping some old B-52 available till the end of times can be interesting.

The USAF F-22; hmm, I'm assuming it IOCs in 1995, as a pure fighter, with no budget delays, programmatic restructurings; etc.

Why no fighter-bomber role? What else could replace the F-111 and F-15E on short notice? Both the FB-22 and A-12 are largely more expensive and less devoted to tactical missions. I still need a first-line support fighter to go in-between the A-10 and FB-22.

Suggest you rename units: 151, 158, 870 and 917 to A-10A Warthog, 871 to A-10C Warthog (representing a complete systems upgrade of the A-10 to have thermal imagery, etc etc)

Good idea, I'll see what kind of upgrade can go in on top of the TI.

Create a new "A-10B FAC" unit based on this

No armed spotters allowed and no need for that one when there are UAVs aplenty. If room allows, some OA-10 could be used as strike/COIN fighters using lighter weaponry based on WP rockets.

F-14 Tomcat is replaced from 2000s onward with the Naval Advanced Technology Fighter

I'm keeping track on this one, but that's OOB13 stuff only. I'll see which version I can come up with, but don't worry, it's somewhere on my drawing board.

F-35......would it EVEN exist as we know it in a Continued Cold War?

Thanks for the info on the Lockheed program, that's one I didn't know about. Mmh... you're right, I'll certainly stick with it for the USAF, I'll need something to replace the F-16. The USN is another matter. I still think the JSF or whatever replaces it is needed in a niche inbetween the A-12 and the F-14 replacement, say as a follow-on to the A-7. The Super Hornet is a no-go for the US market, just not good enough compared to Air Force stuff. A common program still makes sense IMO, big budgets or not. An interesting point in the current JSF program is that it is supposed to be as much a Century Deal as the F-16, and an ever-strong NATO is a good frame for that.

There's also a bunch of other what ifs

As always, thanks for the info. A replacement for the B-2 is low priority enough I'd say because strat bombers aren't that much used in the first place, and the B-2 is able to hold the line well enough until 2020.
The Sea Apache is interesting, and it hits a sore point on my USMC to-do list: which attack helo would the Corps go for, given a choice? I heard they were quite interested in the Apache, so a navalized version could be interesting, if technically feasible. That would only be a sea-based AH of course, not the full-fledged multitask chopper depicted in your document (not exactly the scope of the game).

A competition for a COIN aircraft similar to the American OV-10 Bronco was initiated in 1980 to meet the demands of the war in Afghanistan.

Thanks, I hadn't spotted that one yet. I was aware of Soviet COIN fighter projects, but I was keeping them mostly for export in insurgency-prone or low-budget countries (think Sudan, Yemen, Angola, Vietnam). I'll patch up at least one of them for the next release, which will find its way in the Soviet OOB, as always, if room allows. I've already come up with dedicated icons for the Su-25 replacement (Il-41 Flintlock for now, if anyone can find something better...), which will do for CAS missions in most cases:

[thatguy96]

PlasmaKrab said:

No armed spotters allowed and no need for that one when there are UAVs aplenty. If room allows, some OA-10 could be used as strike/COIN fighters using lighter weaponry based on WP rockets.

Yeah, I've found this to be the best way to approach these things. That was exactly the direction I've taken in my projects (and this was how Laurent had it in his unfinished work too). There are usually enough spotter "vehicles" for the FO Aircraft class, but I still wanted to include these in as well. If you add in the OA-10A/B, then I'd suggest also thinking about adding in the OA-37B.

[MarkSheppard]

You might want to replace the "50mm M411" in future releases with the:

45mm ARES XM295.

It fired XM978 APFSDS-T, and XM979 HEI-T rounds, and was actually part of the US Army's COMVAT program for future light vehicle armament.