MP guide to MA/LA R'lyeh

[Evilhomer]

I have added several new sections, feel free to tell me how they turned out and what you think about them.

[Shovah32]

Salamander, i was refering to the fact that the generic 50 gold priest is all the sacredness MA Ulm gets other than indies.

[Evilhomer]

well the fact that ulm is not at all suited to a bless is no reason to use a bless with rlyeh. Simply do not consider bless with either nations.

[Salamander8]

Shovah32 said:
Salamander, i was refering to the fact that the generic 50 gold priest is all the sacrednesses MA Ulm gets other than indies.

Ouch. I haven't played MA Ulm in DOM3 yet. That's pretty painful.

[Meglobob]

Salamander8 said:

Ouch. I haven't played MA Ulm in DOM3 yet. That's pretty painful.

Its really good, you can play with Order-3, Prod-3, Growth-3 awake pretender and go on a early game slaughter...

Just avoid elephants/mammoths.

[Shovah32]

You can do that with most nations bob

[Meglobob]

Shovah32 said:
You can do that with most nations bob

No, because the bless option is too good to resist...

Also you can get alot of free points by taking Drain-3, Misfortune-3. So you can have a really, really good awake pretender.

[Evilhomer]

Please try to keep this thread about MA/LA rlyeh. The viability of a bless strat for ulm can be discussed in another thread.

[Baalz]

I've been doing a bunch of R'yleh lately and was planning on putting something like this together so here are a couple of my thoughts – I won’t repeat what Homer’s already covered (great job!), but there are a couple of my favorite things that didn’t get mentioned.

A guide to R'yleh needs a discussion of one of the central aspects of being R'yleh – being aquatic. This may seem too obvious to even mention, but there are a couple of implications with are not as obvious and lend themselves to some powerful strategies, and also some underwater strategies which R’yleh is much better suited for than other underwater nations. Other water nations are going to generally default to war with you, and indeed you’ll generally have a good motive to take out the other water nations as fast as possible, but if there are large bodies of water allying with another underwater province can prove to be a powerful move. The big thing is almost none of the land nations are going to be eager to pick a fight in the water any time before late game. Consequently, you have a powerful negotiation tool which often means you don’t need to sign NAPs with any of your land neighbors which will be important in a bit.

What you should do is focus on establishing your underwater territories as rapidly as possible, but avoid taking many land provinces early on. The key to remember is the land nations will often see any move to land to be very aggressive on your part even if you’re just attacking indies. You also give up your best defense, your water. In general, only take island provinces, or perhaps isolated land masses which you can defend from land attack by holding only a single province. Of course this is just a rule of thumb, so use your own judgment.

Fighting between the water nations is much like playing many other nations, and Homer has covered the basics (though I personally value the national troops a bit differently). As he mentions, having an awake SC pretender helps greatly (I’m a fan of the ancient kraken), and having a good gold flow is essential. When I find it gets interesting is once you’ve secured your watery kingdom, either through conquest or alliance and start eyeing your first major land campaign. At this point you should have a long shore border, a good gold and gem income (thanks to voice of tiamat) and several neighbors which you have no NAP with.

Now is when the true beauty of R’yleh begins to shine – freedom. Watch for your opportunity – which of your neighbors is on the losing side of a war? Watch the score graphs (if enabled), use astral windows (or it’s not a bad idea to forge a couple stone spheres), watch the forums and bide your time. Remember, half your opportunity is going to be swooping in to aid somebody already in a war, so make sure you leverage this into the groundwork for future alliances and trading partners.

Now, another great thing about R’yleh is the abundance of fairly stout astral mages (even more so with EA R’yleh…but that would be another thread). This expands upon the freedom theme – pairs of your starspawn can teleport anywhere and take out most PD with the right equipment and script (one idea is to give them bottles of water elementals, script body ethereal then falling frost X4, you get the idea). This can easily be followed up by the construction of a laboratory and the gatewaying in of your real armies. So, as you’re looking for opportunities use your scrying and negotiation and don’t confine yourself to nations bordering the water – there is a lot of joy in attacking somebody who has no way to attack you back and the best they can hope for is to repulse your attack. Use intel from your newly found allies (who will be overjoyed to have you join them in a fight they’re already bogged down in), and teleport into the rear, lightly held territories. Heck, you can likely even get some bribes to join the winning side of a war, or just rent out your Mind Hunter’s services to the right bidder.

Speaking of which, R’yleh is the poster child for some of the offensive rituals, namely Mind Hunt and Vengence of the Dead. You’ll have many mages capable of casting each, and both benefit from penetration boosting. Eyes of the Void and Spell Foci are no brainers, but you’ll also want to secure rune smashers if possible. Trade if you can, but if not you’ll likely have a modest fire gem income from voice of Tiamat with absolutely no fire mages, so don’t be afraid to empower one of your starspawn twice and set him to forging them – it’s not a terrible investment for 80 gems. Because of the danger of going feebleminded while casting mind hunt you’ll want to get some way to cure afflictions, the two easiest being the fairy queens or the chalice, both of which are attainable through a slave mage with a nature random. Once you get your artillery brigade set up, it’s a truly awesome apparatus against anyone without a lot of astral mages. SCs will be unable to go anywhere unescorted, hit and run raiders will not be a problem, spies have no chance of sowing unrest, and even larger armies can be split up as you take out some of the commanders leading troops, leaving others to follow their orders. Again, use your scrying to find juicy targets away from the front line once your opponents start expecting it.

So, for me, playing R’yleh is defined by two things 1) leveraging your underwater defensive advantage and 2) a handful of spells: voice of Tiamat, teleport, mind hunt/vengeance of the dead. It’s all about freedom, mobility, and surprise because against an evenly skilled opponent you’re likely not going to be able to hold your own on the ground in a straight fight. R’yleh is a submarine, keep your opponents guessing as to where you’re going to surface next. You should have a great gem income, very good research and a lot of magic versatility.

[Evilhomer]

Thanks for the feedback baalz. I agree on most of what you have said but I will give some feedback on some parts where our opinions differ.

So, as you´re looking for opportunities use your scrying and negotiation and don’t confine yourself to nations bordering the water – there is a lot of joy in attacking somebody who has no way to attack you back and the best they can hope for is to repulse your attack. Use intel from your newly found allies (who will be overjoyed to have you join them in a fight they’re already bogged down in), and teleport into the rear, lightly held territories. Heck, you can likely even get some bribes to join the winning side of a war, or just rent out your Mind Hunter’s services to the right bidder.

Why you want to pick a fight with someone that doesn't border you im unsure about. Basically rlyeh depends on a large number of mages and troops to be involved in a campaign, else the campaign will just fail - and you will have wasted alot of money and gems (meanwhile other nation elsewhere has grown stronger). If you wish to win such a campaign you usually need to involve a lot of starspawns (30+ maybe) and troops in the thousands (well at least as LA rlyeh), to gate and teleport that in will cost you alot of astral gems. And even if that succeds you have now efficiently separted your kingdom into 2 parts that cannot support each other, seldom a good idea. The only reason why you want to do this is if you are bribed (and then you are going in there to hurt the guy not really to keep any lands) or if someone is about to win the game and your hands are forced. In my opinion you should expand taking down weak opponents or those that are a threat to you (and then you might want an allie or two to help you), and you should try to expand in a manner that gives you as few fronts to guard as possible (this means setting up NAP with nations you aren't intending to expand into).

So, for me, playing R’yleh is defined by two things 1) leveraging your underwater defensive advantage and 2) a handful of spells: voice of Tiamat, teleport, mind hunt/vengeance of the dead. It’s all about freedom, mobility, and surprise because against an evenly skilled opponent you’re likely not going to be able to hold your own on the ground in a straight fight. R’yleh is a submarine, keep your opponents guessing as to where you’re going to surface next. You should have a great gem income, very good research and a lot of magic versatility.

There are obviously different ways to play and enjoy rlyeh. You seem to employ a bit of hit and run tactics (nothing wrong in that) but I really would say that rlyeh can stand their ground against most land nations (when they get access to some nice magic). The key is communions and buff spells like darkness for your chaff backed up with large numbers of starspawns spamming magic in the form of for example nether darts. (on my handfull of spells i would put: voice of tiamat, nether darts, communion master/slave and darkness).