MA Agartha, or Yet another thread fishing for tips

[atul]

Earth bless is an armor boost, and does little to things with only natural armor.

BTW, when you say that Earth Readers can easily be upped to E4 you seem to be forgetting the really important WF magics. I mean, the world of Magma at your fingertips, no need to exhaust the Readers with Earth-only spells like Blade Wind.

[Shovah32]

Magma eruption is a very nice spell. Use it now.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Magma at your fingertips? Don't the Earth Readers have only EH??? Feel free to exhaust the Readers, and let your Golem Crafters use the WF magics.

Curse of Stones can help your troops hit the enemy, help your troops dodge blows, and occasionally give you a critical. Only 10 fatigue is necessary to start reducing defense. Throw in some Dispossessed Spirits (D1 Conj5 4 gems for 15) or Skeleton Spam, and you might even be able to make them fall asleep themselves.

And don't forget Magma Bolts aren't AP. Rust Mist is limited in that their armor isn't broken until blows are struck. And only at 50%. Destruction kicks in immediately, and only costs 10 fatigue more

(since the manual doesn't list gem costs for battlefield spells, is there a place I can check that information away from the game?)

Even if you don't spend additional gems, this can be used in a pinch to reduce the cost of spells such as Earth Meld, and Iron Warriors. And casting Earth Meld instead of Earth Grip? Nice. Even if you can only cast it twice - though with magic scales and all the methods of reducing fatigue you can probably go higher.

So, how do you decide between Destruction and Iron Bane? What's the difference? Constructs don't have armor, right, and won't be affected by Iron Bane? But they would be affected by Destruction, since they are a high prot unit? Why is it that Iron Bane is two research levels higher, despite having only a "When struck [...] 50% chance of becoming broken" and affecting friendlies?

Legions of Steel is only Construction 3, Strength of Giants Enchantment 3. Not overwhelming in themselves, but available early enough to help you put all that infantry to use after the early expansion stage, or possibly even during, since Enchant 3 is available in around eight turns even w/o a researching commander, magic scale, mercenary Sage, or random heroes/sites/etc. I did the math somewhere else, so that number isn't accurate, but close. My favorite game had two Libraries churning out sages withing a couple provinces of my capital. I had research out the wazoo. Blathering aside, I'll need to make my guide a little more condensed, and trim some of the fat. But as I was saying, +3 prot and +4 strength will help all your infantry overcome mundane forces, and the armor of other human infantry.

Honestly, Blade Wind was the last spell on my mind. Given my low precision and national summons, I often neglect Evocation much more than I should.

[Shovah32]

Legions of steel and strength of giants are great, even more-so when combined with other buffs like weapons of sharpness(with strength of giants and weapons of sharpness you will rip through enemies)

[mivayan]

Lazy_Perfectionist -
A battlefield spell costs 1 gem(or slave) per full 100 fatigue. So 1 gem for a 199 fatigue spell, two for a 200 fatigue spell. (it's at the start of the battlefield spells part in the manual).

Only units actually wearing armor are affected by armor destroying spells, strong skin or rock bodies aren't affected.

Destruction, alt4, 40 fatigue, affects 6 squares at range 25. Both friends and foes are affected, but the mage will try to aim it at large enemy groups. Destroys armor.

Iron bane, alt6, 100 fatigue and one earth gem, affects *everyone* in the battle. Makes armor break after a good hit. Sounds pretty good used with statues. Unless the statues kills anything with one hit. Only need one mage per battle for this one... not so with destruction.

Evocations - might be needed against super high def enemies.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Mivayan- does that go down when you are over pathed?

I mean, if a spell normally costs 150 fatigue, and you have magic scale 3, and have one level in excess, do you still need gems?

Anyways.. onto my delayed and somewhat scattered mage-priest section- a final draft will be better organized.

I'll probably start a guide thread sometime next week.

Mage-Priests

Attendant of the Oracle (50,1) (L 10-0-0)
When you read the description of these guys, they come off as bootlickers, attending to every need of the Ancients, even going as far to wipe their asses for them. So, in the rare cases I do recruit these guys, that's what for. Leading 10 Ancient Ones into battle with a bless. But they're in no way superior to your standard independent priest. In fact, does anyone use them? I think they are there just in case your lab burns down.

Earth Reader (90, 1) (L 40-0-5) (EH no randoms)
They may seem rather boring with just one earth, but they are mage priests. As long as you are expecting company, you needn't fear the undead- or at least their skelly spam. Being sacred, they cost only 3 upkeep. I'd keep at least four researching in every fortress. Why every fortress, and not all in one spot? Simple. These guys transform into Earth 3 mages very quickly. Keep four boots of Earth in your laboratory. When you are going to break a siege, transfer them to your Earth Readers, script in earth power, and load in some earth gems. You can happily let them cast away at earth 3, give them a butload of gems and cast e4, or give them just enough gems to cast one e4 spell and fall unconscious/dead. They are your bottom-line mage. On top of this these guys don't start with old age. Their exact age is [insert number here] so while you need not worry about death by natural causes anytime soon, decay is [is not] a threat.

It's tough to choose between these guys and Golem Crafters early on. Golem Crafters ofter twice the research, but their advanced old age means they won't last more than a couple years, especially if you take any death scale. You'll have to keep on reinvesting. And besides, if your Earth Readers live long enough, they can get research bonuses. Your Golem Crafters never will. I'll probably settle with a few Golem Crafters to start me off quick followed by Earth Readers. Pulling some numbers out of my arse, say, a 3:1 ratio of ER to GC? I'll do the math later.

Golem Crafter (200,2) (L 40-0-20) (FWEEH no randoms)
This guy starts old. Get enough death scales, and he'll die young.
I don't have any idea why, but this guy starts out with a maul. Perhaps to beat the statues when they get out of line? Whatever. While you will be limited by your gem income, you can bootstrap yourself up to water/fire 3 much the same way, if you design your pretender with that in mind. But a lot less frequently. More on that later. These characters are useful both early and late in the game. They scale all the way into battle magic of earth 5 easy. Three if you want to save gems and not have your mage collapse in an unconscious heap. These guys are necessary for the majority of your National Summons. They have access to particular spells such as Magma Bolts that others are more familiar with. I'll revise\add my spell commentary as I get some more experience. Point is, this guy has more variety.
With Earth Boots, they can produce the Dwarven Hammer (15 earth gems) But so can the oracle. And you're likely to have 20 earth gems and Construction 3 before you have Oracles of the Ancients to spare on forging. [NOTE= Look into details of Forge Bonus. Bonus is cumulative. Is path construction bonus. Reduction straightforward? I've seen a discussion on this but can't remember. Is 50% half-cost? Linear savings?]. It's not impossible to give your Golem Crafter two Dwarven Hammers and get a 50% forge bonus. Take a Forge Lord for pretender, and you can get a 75% bonus before your first year is out.
The most likely thing you're going to forge with fire gems is the Burning Pearl. This gives a hefty +4 attack boost, and as an afterthought, 50% FR. Considering all the tempting Earth Weapons with an attack penalty, I always have a few on hand. Much later, the Lightless Lantern is available for a +6 research boost. Around the same time, though, the Shield of Gleaming Gold becomes available, and that Awe property is rather tempting.

On the water front, I haven't found much of interest in my play, yet. But I've also had bad luck on the water gem front. But the Rime Hauberk may be something to give to any Ancient Lords you have visiting cold lands. Anything you think is a water Must Forge? Ideally at 5 water gems, before Forge Bonus? Later on I'll probably have enough gems to not penny pinch, but I'm focusing most of my efforts on improving my early game.

Oracle of the Ancients (400,1) (80,30,15) (DEEEHHH w/random +10% earth,fire,water,death)

Starts sacred, with old age. Though because max age is high, isn't affected as much as the Golem Crafter.

At 400 gold, the random pick is quite weak. Though not meaningless.

+1 death will open up some important options, primarily Twiceborn (sometimes gives +1 upon death), Skull Staff, Create Revenant, Summon Spectre, Summon Mound Fiend, etc. At two death, he can bring all your other oracles up to his level and take Agartha in some interesting directions. Oh, and between a death random, Skull Staff, and spare death gems, you have D4, enough for Darkness.
An earth pick will open up Forge of the Ancients, Mechanical Militia, Riches From Beneath with Earth boots, no empowerment needed. You'll also be able to cast King of Elemental Earth, a powerful caster/potential thug. And you'll now be able to Earth Attack for a mere 5 Gems. Assassination from a distance is nice.
A fire pick will get you (new) Corpse Candles, (already have) Magma Eruptions at more of a discount. Also, Skull of Fire (+ fire)
A water pick will get you no particular spells.

All of these picks will open up some new options, especially with the Dwarven Hammers. Again, does two Dwarven Hammers count as +2 path for construction? Except water. I haven't found any reason to be happy about a random water pick. Anybody able to give me a reason?

On top of all this, you've got a level three priest. Four if you prophetize. Anybody know where I look for a listing of L4/L3 holy sites (dom3?) And how relevant the Dom2 list is? For instance, is the Temple of Time still here as H4? Any new holy sites? Any I should consider looking for/will see signs of?

Barring randoms, what do you use teh Oracle of the Ancients for?
Level 3 priest.
Summoning Umbrals and Awakening Cavern Wights and Enliven Marble Oracle
With boosts, Summoning Revenants and forging Skull Staffs, and casting Twice Born. (Gets you a handy move 3 unit).
They'll cast Blight, Dark Knowledge, Wizard's Tower (boost)
All these details and no summary? I'll need that in my final version. I'll need a basic version with footnotes at this rate. First post basic, second advanced?

[mivayan]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
Mivayan- does that go down when you are over pathed?

I mean, if a spell normally costs 150 fatigue, and you have magic scale 3, and have one level in excess, do you still need gems?

The gem cost is fixed, nothing can change it. (except modding of course).

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Thanks. Any idea where there's a comprehensive list of magic sites? I've found a full list of the names, I've found a list of their powers by number code, but nothing my brain can quite parse.