Questions about PD and other

[Archonsod]

thejeff said:
Maybe because I tend to play against Impossible level AIs? At least the initial attacks tend to have 4-500 troops. Even 100 PD isn't going to stop that for most nations.

Depends on the nation and their PD troops, and also whether the AI has decided to be sensible or not. A good PD force (Abyssia for example) can be lethal, especially if backed up with a mage or two. Of course, like I said it depends on the AI, It tends to put forward useless armies as often as it does credible ones.
To be honest, I'd be surprised if the AI managed to beat the high PD when it's fielding that many troops. Generally it's had them starving for a couple of turns first, and what takes the field looks more like your local hospital's casualty ward than it does an army.

[Gandalf Parker]

I like to use alot of PD in chokepoints. Or if its far away from my castle and I need a quick fix to stop a sudden attack.

I usually try to pad out my PD with something helpful. Adding a captain or two can really help its morale. If it has no archers then adding archers or crossbowmen or even slinger can help. If no mounted then knights help.

The PD of course is mindlessly scattered in the middle of the map and charge forward. So a purchased group set off to the flanks with smart scripting can make use of the distraction that the PD provides.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Please tell me if I'm interpreting this correctly...

50 points of PD for MA Agartha costs
(1+50)/2*50= 1275 gold
And for that I get
1st point: 1 Cave Captain 1 Agarthan Light Infantry, 1 Agarthan Infantry.
19 points: 1 Cave Captain, 19 LI, 19 I
20 points: 1 Cave Captain, 20 LI, 20 I, 1 Pale One Captain, 1 Pale One Soldier
50 points 1 Cave Captain, 50 LI, 50 I, 1 Pale One Captain, 30 Pale One Soldiers.

Regularly, 50 light infantry are 500 resources, 500 gold. Regular infantry are 1100 resources, 500 gold.
Thirty Pale One Soldiers are 600 resources, 300 gold.
Total regular cost, disregarding captains, is 2200 resources, 1300 gold. Not a bad deal... Throw in a mage who can cast darkness, four Earth Readers with Earth Boots scripted to cast Earth Power and various E4/E3 spells... Or Iron Bane. And its still way too much money invested, but a lot of precious resources saved for my sloth 1 Agartha. At that point, I'd probably go with another fortress instead, but I'd like to know if I have the math right before thinking too hard.

[Shovah32]

You probably have it right but remember that you cant script, place or move the troops.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Certainly. But its not like I want them to hold while my nonexistent archers fire. If I can properly guess their position and action, I've got the necessary wall of meat for Curse of Stones to have a very nice effect. Or various other spells. Throw in Darkness and I might be tough to take out, barring assassination. Or the ever common undead.

Problem is, with my current scales, I can barely recruit 5 infantry a turn from my capital, depending on the map. Given the scarcity of my troops, even 10 PD is a godsend. I don't have low resource troops outside of summons. So, agartha and 1 sloth... ooh, gotta love PD. At 19, I get about 40 units at 190 gold, zero resources. And they'd normally cost me about 400 gold, 500 resources.

[HoneyBadger]

Personally, I'd really like to see PD expanded considerably. It's a great idea-a real milestone in strategic tooling-and it should be utilized to it's full capability.

[BigDisAwesome]

Maybe It'd be a better idea to get rid of a little sloth and add some productivity perhaps?

Even though you're theoretically saving resources, in the long run you're wasting gold. If you were to hire a couple armies to act as PD, you'd save a lot of gold and have a better force.
You could...
place them and script them as you please
move them to wherever they're needed to defend
push forward with them so that your front lines are always defended
etc...
Their biggest plus over PD is their mobility.

You got a nice idea for working with what you got, but why settle when you can change what you got to start with?

[Sombre]

People talked about a PD mod before - just using mod commands you could alter PD quite a bit. It wouldn't make it any more complicated, but it could be more useful/subtle.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Still, BigDisAwesome... I see no reason not to go with a mobile army, except that even with prod+1 my forces would be limited. By going with a little sloth and misfortune, I've got a huge research strat planned out. We'll see how it works, but even headed in the opposite direction its been rough expanding as Agartha. I've had a couple good situations... but with my current build I can afford 190 gold at a key province a LOT easier than forty troops. Doesn't mean I won't put some support there- but I don't even get archers or cavalary.

So, I have the option of a). Building no pd, and building forty lackluster troops in a turn, or b). Buying 20 pd, and building 20 lackluster troops who will support my superior golems. As a point of perspective, CTIS heavy infantry costs 15 resources. Agartha heavy infantry 27. Admittedly, some nations rival Agartha in resource cost for HI, but most nations also have chaff outside of indies. I don't.

[Archonsod]

BigDisAwesome said:
Even though you're theoretically saving resources, in the long run you're wasting gold. If you were to hire a couple armies to act as PD, you'd save a lot of gold and have a better force.

Not much use if your a resource heavy nation and happen to have a lack of resources though, plus you end up with troops sat away from the frontline doing nothing but taking upkeep if nobody attacks. PD can do the same job without the upkeep.
Then of course there's the problem of attrition. Troops can be affected by spells, dominion and the like while PD is not. They can also be ground down by mages, archers or similar on fire and flee orders. Against PD such a tactic is completely useless.
As for wasting gold, if the troops you buy are killed that's it, you need to buy a whole new unit to replace them. PD on the other hand will continue to provide the same units without further expenditure until the province is taken. Technically, the cost to keep a group of 10 troops defending a province could end up being much higher than the equivilent PD over the long term through casualty replacement alone (before upkeep is even taken into consideration)

As for improving PD, it would be nice to see some actual defences rather than simply troops. Or has the Dominions world not heard of ditches, redoubts and the like?