Iran's Flag

[Noah_Vaile]

Yes, that is what I meant. Better tanks (at least for the period) than they used/bought after their "revolution."

[PlasmaKrab]

If anyone is up for another what-if mod, an Iranian OOB without the revolution could be quite fun. They had slated about 1000 of what would become the Challenger-1, and were expected to get fair quantities of LAVs, F-16s and other goodies.

[cbreedon]

Without the revolution they would probably have been one of the best equiped armies in the world. The amount of cool stuff the US and other were selling them was incredible. A well equiped Pro-Western government in the region would have change history quite a bit. No Hezballah. Probably no Iran-Iraq war. Without that no Gulf War I and who knows after that??? Interesting alternative timeline.

[Marcello]

"Probably no Iran-Iraq war"

Definitively no Iran-Iraq war. The iraqi attack was born out of opportunism, taking advantage of the iranian weakness. Saddam would not have dared otherwise. My memory is a bit rusty but IIRC there were some clashes in the 70's during the imperial era and the iraqi forces involved were smashed pretty badly.

"No Hezballah"

I would suspect that long as the israeli go into Lebanon as historically did something like Hizballah would probably come out.Even with Iran out of the picture there is still Syria for material support.They might not be as powerful of course.

"If anyone is up for another what-if mod, an Iranian OOB without the revolution could be quite fun."

I have been toying with the idea for some time.If and when I can find some time...

[PlasmaKrab]

I agree with both of you on this, most certainly no Iran-Iraq war since Iraq had signed a reluctant territorial agreement in the late 70s, and only attacked because Iran was supposed to have been weakened by the revolution. Possibly no invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviets as well, since Iran was a powerful US ally in the area and they already had had some border incidents with the Sovs (that's what the F-14s were there for).

I'm not sure about the Gulf War, since Iraq would have remained a sworn enemy led by bad ole Hussein and his famously rational decisions Bets are that he wouldn't have the temptation to invade Quwait with the full Iranian power (and US/NATO backing) looming over his head. A India/Pakistan-style local cold war with occasional clashes would make more sense.

As Marcello said, Hizbollah is another matter, since some opposition would certainly have sprung out in Lebanon. Remains to be decided why the revolution wouldn't have taken place. Would Khomeini and his gang still hang around somewhere? If so, with which kind of support? I guess he could end up in Lebanon to preach holy war against Israel much like he did from Tehran IRL and whip up a local Hezbollah-equivalent, maybe with opportunist support from Syria or some other neighbor. Turns out kind of like Bin Laden's story in reverse...
The strategical situation and motivations behind the Hezbollah's actions would be quite different of course.

[Marcello]

"I'm not sure about the Gulf War, since Iraq would have remained a sworn enemy led by bad ole Hussein and his famously rational decisions"

The Gulf War was largely a byproduct of the Iran Iraq war; Saddam ended the war with the most powerful army in the area and a bottomless pool of red ink. Seizing an oil rich emirate they had territorial claims on seemed a decent way out of the conudrum. Take away this and add a powerful neighbor armed to the teeth and the whole thing suddenly becomes a lot less attractive.

[cbreedon]

Interesting take on Afghanistan PlasmaKrab. I hadn't thought of that. The invasion was in December 1979 and the Shah was left in February. Maybe one of the factors was that the Soviets felt "Western" weakness in the region. Without that invasion, we may not have had Osama and the Taliban... I had never thought on how much history of the region was affected by the Iranian Revolution.