German ranks

[PatG]

Arrrgh! No! light infantry is a concept dating back to the Pharonic armies and probably before that too. Think of screening your Hastati / Princeps line with Velites or using Pictish archers to attack from rough ground while the enemy goes after your spear line. The "modern" light infantry concept goes back to the Voltigeurs, Rifle Regiments, Minute Men and Jaegers of the Napoleonic period. Agile forces deployed in loose formation capable of independant action.
The "modern-modern" (and American) concept is that of a rapid deployment force - and I would go with gliders over airborne to draw a WWII comparison not Airborne which although light are also elite.

I never suggested that the inclusion of the 70mm makes a unit light - that's an absurd line of reasoning. It is a very different piece of kit even from other IGs -you can break it down and man pack it if you have to and the Japanese did so - who needs horses? And of course it produces the same plunging fire as a mortar - It's-A-Howitzer. What it can do that 99.9% of mortars can't is fire horizontally.

I dunno about McMichael either - I mean he's only an army officer involved in the study of light infantry I doubt he knows sh*t.

As for the Japanese planning to deploy into jungle look at
Behind the myth of the jungle superman: a tactical examination of the Japanese Army’s Centrifugal Offensive, 7 December 1941 to 20 May 1942.

http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/show...lename=528.pdf

To quote from the abstract:

While the IJA’s equipment was usually ill suited for battle against the Soviets, Japanese emphasis on light weight unintentionally made the IJA’s standard issue items eminently suitable for jungle operations. Likewise, the IJA’s doctrine was ideal for a short, offensive jungle campaign.

But of course Major Howard - possibly Light Colonel if his promo went through - is also only an officer who reads Japanese and quotes from primary source texts so I doubt he knows sh*t either. It's not like his paper won the Arter-Darby Military History Writing Award - Oh wait it did.

Chuck, I have never seen the need to question your knowledge of WWII German kit and TO&Es and I will never question your tenacity but on this one you have to at least buy a vowel if not a whole clue.

[Marek_Tucan]

Earlier there was a question whether mountain troops are to be considered light infantry - you bet they are

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
10TH MOUNTAIN DIVISION
(LIGHT INFANTRY)

They fulfill every criterion, be it 10th Mountain, Chasseurs Alpins, Alpinis or Gebirgsjäger... They use lightened rear, many special tools (for example mules instead of horses and trucks in the history), special weapons made to be lightweight and preferably easy to break up for transport (OTO 105mm M56 howitzer, 75mm IG-36...) and they usually hump on their backs more of their kit than regular grunts do.

[PatG]

Marek_Tucan said:
Earlier there was a question whether mountain troops are to be considered light infantry - you bet they are

They fulfill every criterion, be it 10th Mountain, Chasseurs Alpins, Alpinis or Gebirgsjäger... They use lightened rear, many special tools (for example mules instead of horses and trucks in the history), special weapons made to be lightweight and preferably easy to break up for transport (OTO 105mm M56 howitzer, 75mm IG-36...) and they usually hump on their backs more of their kit than regular grunts do.

That makes them equipment light but are they tactically light as well? My guess would be yes as they are chasseurs/jaegers.

[wulfir]

PatG said:
As for the Japanese planning to deploy into jungle look at
Behind the myth of the jungle superman: a tactical examination of the Japanese Army’s Centrifugal Offensive, 7 December 1941 to 20 May 1942.

A little tip for those interested:

Eric Bergerud's Touched with Fire have some interesting comparisons between Australian, American and Japanese ground forces during the fighting in the South Pacific.

Book Link

[chuckfourth]

Hi Pat
Sorry I should have said -relevant to this discussion- light infantry.
Mortars typically have an elevation of between 45 to 85 degrees, but Howitzers often have a maximum elevation of 45 degrees or so and a few get to 70 degrees or a little less. Point being that in general mortars bombs can have a steeper angle of attack than howitzer shells ie what Ive called 'plunging fire'.
You may be right about McMicheal and CP Howard
McMicheal Generalisations are not supported by his examples, and Howards Referencing is so poor as to be useless.
If either were submitted to me as a PHD thesis which is what they appear to be, I would fail both.
Best Regards Chuck.