Beginner's Guide to Shinuyama MA

[Shovah32]

I just didnt feel like changing the original too much. For a ghostking i would(at most) probably give him air 2, fire 2, earth 2, death 3 for combat buffing and, if i was using him to give shinuyama a magic boost i might give him a boost to air 4(can get up to air 6 with 2 air boosters then) and maybe a bit of nature magic if i felt i needed it.

With the combat paths listed he could buff with mistform, soul vortex, phoenix pyre, summon earthpower(more reinvigorration for phoenix pyre) and a protection buff(iron/stoneskin).

Going for awe dominion still seems like a little much on a rainbow SC to me but oh well...

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Shoot me. I killed my lengthy post accidentally. Double drat.
I'll have to give the cliff notes version.

Bakemono Kunshu, Pretender


Yukinaga, Heart Finder, National Hero (Dom 3.08, unmodded)


An immortal pretender plus immortal hero? Nice.
I've been working on developing the Kunshu into a supercombatant. I've had limited success, quite a few experimental builds, and I'll share what I've had the most fun with.

It does need tuning, but a Kunshu with fire 6, death6, air 2, Five dominion.

Script

Mistform-> Fireshield-> Flight ->Attack Rear

There are some issues with scripting close combat spells, and scripting, but you can try flight->attack->immolation. Unfortunately, you have no innate fire resistance (but immortal) and can only issue a random attack order in that sequence, no hopping to the rear.

[Shovah32]

I would have added some earth magic onto the kunshu due to the lack of natural protection and the fairly high enc.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Umm.. yeah. I've tried various things, but I'm looking for something dependable, in practice. That means I need tested directions for battlefield use.

I might consider adding earth magic into my 'rear-attack' build because I want watchers, but then I'd also want regen. Even with iron skin, though, he often doesn't survive long for encumb to be an issue. Perhaps if I comboed enough spells, like the suggested build in the manual- though that spell encumbrance of eight is killer, especially if I take any drain.

I'm all over the place. Point is, depending on my paths and 'magic' I can only script a few spells sometime. I need directions on use a little more than spells. What do you consider and effective use of immortals, and an effective return on your efforts, esp. considering you're not spending much, if anything, on equipment.
Do I use him as solo kamikaze, what happens if I have him kamikaze the enemy's rear while my armies take on their armies? Is battlefield flight range unlimited, or do I get better results if I place him a little further forward?

I've got to experiment a bit more before I hit on something successful- all my experiments so far were suicide solos- perhaps more protection will benefit. Though I did have better results against small groups of elite units in my different experiments.

Anyone know exactly how fire shield scales? It does seem more effective at six than three ... something like 12 to 10 AP. Is there a cutoff point or a point where it becomes ridiculously effective? Yep, I'll be tinkering.

Barbarians are my number one hurdle, so far, overcoming most spells i can offer up in short order. I'll have to try swarms of bakemono-sho archers while my guy kamikazes the front ranks.

[Shovah32]

I think fire 9 grants something like 15ap damage so there isnt a huge increase. My personal favourite buff(for anyone but particularly fun on immortals) has got to be phoenix pyre. Its not avaliable early(and therefore for expansion) but a script of phoenix pyre, summon earthpower, ironskin/invunerability, attack rear/archers is very effective with minimal equipment(fire/frost/shadowbrand, a basic shield, some reinvigoration items) and lots of fun.

[thejeff]

One amusing use for immortal death mages is to spam lammashtas. Sure they kill you eventually, but who cares? You're immortal.

Battlefield flight range is unlimited, but probably similar to the moral check for passing more forward groups that ground troops on attack rear get, sometimes you get distracted and attack a closer target. Anecdotal evidence suggests that starting farther forward helps.

Higher research, but soul vortex is good?

How about dom 9/10 for awe? Will also help spread dominion, always good for immortals.

With other immortal death mages, mostly liches, I've found skelespam is as good as anything at taking most indies.

[Shovah32]

thejeff said:
One amusing use for immortal death mages is to spam lammashtas. Sure they kill you eventually, but who cares? You're immortal.

Battlefield flight range is unlimited, but probably similar to the moral check for passing more forward groups that ground troops on attack rear get, sometimes you get distracted and attack a closer target. Anecdotal evidence suggests that starting farther forward helps.

Higher research, but soul vortex is good?

How about dom 9/10 for awe? Will also help spread dominion, always good for immortals.

With other immortal death mages, mostly liches, I've found skelespam is as good as anything at taking most indies.

Summoning armies is usually good for immortals but then again, most of them dont have encumberance which means they can spam the spells for a little longer. For an immortal with the sort of combat potential the kunshu has i find it better to use it in a combat role but early on before you have access to many buffs/items yes, spells like summon lammashtas and raise skeletons are very useful.
I cant belive i forgot soul vortex! Not only is it usually awesome but when combined with phoenix pyre it is absolutely amazing. Units with soul vortex rarely have fatigue above 0 unless fighting many lifeless enemies but with phoenix pyre raising your fatigue so quickly the drained fatigue from living enemies is extremely helpful.

[thejeff]

I find it hard to use immortals as SCs or even thugs. If you equip them enough to really fill the role, then you lose a lot of the benefit of immortality. Now you care if they die, since you lose the items.

Without gear, artillery or summoning usually works better.

[MaxWilson]

Hmmm, that kind of makes me want to try a communion with Ktonian necromancers, the ones with an Astral random.

<Communion Master, Invulnerability, Phoenix Pyre, Soul Vortex>
<Communion Slave, hold, hold, hold, attack>

It's probably less effective than just spamming Magma Eruption but it sounds like fun. The few times I've played with Phoenix Pyre I have been frustrated by the way afflictions accumulate, but I'll give it another shot here.

-Max