Capturing Capitols

[Digress]

Meglobob said:

However, how about somewhere slightly inbetween, when you conquer another races capital, you have a 1 in 3 chance of being able to recruit that races national troop types/leaders. This always excludes that races sacreds.

So for example, I conquer MA Agarthas capital, a one off check then occurs for MA Agarthas national troops as follows:-

Agarthan scout 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Cave captain 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Pale one Captain 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Agarthan light infantry 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Agarthan infantry 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Argathan heavy infantry 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.
Pale one soldier 1 in 3 chance of still being recruitable.

Ancient one, attendant of oracles, earth reader, golem crafter, ancient lord and oracle of ancients are all sacred so can never be reruitable by another nation. Those units are dedicated to Agartha and there god only.

Should Agartha reconquer his capital all units are recruitable as normal. But should any other nation conquer it after, the original units who made the 1 in 3 are recruitable, another check is not made.

I believe this would stop all nations morphing into one problem but make capitals more tempting targets with a greater reward for the conquerer. It would also open up more tactics/strategies up for individual nations later in the game.

It would also reflect the nation being enslaved/conquered/ruled by the host nation. Its very unrealistic at the moment that a nations entire conquered population refuse to serve there conquerer. The Roman Empire for example had its armies made up more of auxilleries from conquered nations than soldiers from Rome/Italy.

I think this might well be a good idea - but should probably include a dominion effect - you should have to displace the conquered nations dominion and replace it with your own before you can incorporate the conquered nations national troops into your army. Maybe even have the requirement that the nation that has lost the capitol be completely destroyed before the "faithful" are willing to be recruits in the army of their conquerer.

I also think there should be some sort of random event in captured capitols representing the oppressed nation attempting to rise once again - maybe even with a low power AI controlled pretender leading the rebellion (this would only occur should the orignal pretender have been completely defeated).

[hnchrist3]

Think of what you are saying:

[hnchrist3]

Think of what you are saying:
"I want a nations specific loyalists, to be loyal to me."

No. They ONLY serve their nation.
Think of it, if one (or more) random nationalist(s) were to stray into a Capitol you conquered, not only would you kill them all, you wouldn't even THINK of asking them to join you.
{Postscriptum: they would not.}

Be content with having all their gem sites.

[Digress]

I am not suggesting its a big deal.

But I still think there is some merit in the idea - I think sacred units certainly shouldn't be recruitable as they are the hard core loyalists but the remaining population should be able to yield recruits that reflect the nature of the newly conquered population.

[atul]

I think the main beef people have with conquered capitols is that it seems silly there suddenly is no mark of previous population at all. Quite genocidal, these religious wars.

On way to make capitols 'remember' what they were while not getting overpowered would be to switch the indy poptype of capital city to correspond the nation. Like, conquer C'tis and you get the indy lizards, i.e. Lizard Warrior and Shamen; conquer Machaka and there are Lion Tribals; with Man a Knight province; Marverni yields some tribals; Sauromatia those water amazons; Ape nation gets the markata indy troops.

Many of the corresponding indy - nation pairs are already there, and you can find them anyway if you're lucky. This would represent conquered capitols yielding new kind of troops, but who don't benefit from the culture of past.

[Tuidjy]

I love Atul's idea.

[MaxWilson]

atul said:
I think the main beef people have with conquered capitols is that it seems silly there suddenly is no mark of previous population at all. Quite genocidal, these religious wars.
<snip>

True, it lacks versimilitude, but it's just about as silly as the fact that once you capture an enemy capital you are suddenly able to recruit thousands of your own Marverni Nobles or whatever there. Where did all the Marvernis come from, when the whole 30,000 population of the capital was Abysians one turn ago?

I'm not opposed to the idea of some extra reward from capturing a capital, but I don't mind the way it is right now either.

-Max

[atul]

MaxWilson said:
Where did all the Marvernis come from, when the whole 30,000 population of the capital was Abysians one turn ago?

_Very_ fanatical settlers. After aforementioned genocide.

I think the current situation is OK, but the suggestion about indy types was to address the complaints. No way I'd like to see the actual nationals in the roster, after all every nation has two sides - the breedstock and the culture. And the culture, that's something you're wiping out immediately.

[Endoperez]

The indy idea isn't new. I think SemiRandom could do it, as well.

We're still missing poptypes for most nations, though. Marignon and Arcos would give some kind of indies (crossbows, and inferior spear infantry), but we'd need something for the 'Heims, and Abysia (humanbred), and R'lyeh, etc.