Malfador, Bring back retreat option from SEIII

[disabled]

I recall MM saying they were considering bringing it back for SE5... So it's kinda a break even on it. We get it back, but not for a year or so.

I think if enough letters are emailed to MM demanding it, MM would re-add it.

But I don't know if it's worth the number of hard code changes...

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hadrian Aventine:
I recall MM saying they were considering bringing it back for SE5... So it's kinda a break even on it. We get it back, but not for a year or so.

I think if enough letters are emailed to MM demanding it, MM would re-add it.

But I don't know if it's worth the number of hard code changes...

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Actually, all we need is some way to avoid getting caught in the 'invisible corner'. He wouldn't have to implement strategic movement, just let the pursued ship 'disappear' from combat if it gets a certain distance ahead of the pursuers. Out of range of all weapons when it hits the wall, maybe? Something like that.

[PvK]

The problem though is the "retreat forward" tactic. You want to get through an enemy position, so you engage them, and immediately retreat, getting back to the strategic map, where you then go forward. They can never intercept you. Or, worse, you move onto an enemy homeworld, then immediately retreat in tactical. With no strategic movement, you'd be on the homeworld sector, and could lay mines, use stellar manipulations (destroy planet), etc. That's why a retreat needs to result in strategic movement (as in SE3), or at least, restricted strategic movement and actions following the retreat.

PvK

[Talenn]

IMO, in a game system as abstracted as SE4, any retreat function is just going to cause FAR more problems that it solves, especially by players exploiting it against the AI.

In order for a retreat system to really be viable, some or all of the following would be necessary:

1) some sort of 'mass based' movement system so that smaller ships were truly faster and/or more economical per movement point than larger ships.

2) some sort of inertial movement system and/or maneuver system such that ships cant simply up and change direction at will.

3) some sort of an 'orders blackout' on retreating ships while they return to some point(closest friendly base?).

Without some or all the above, any retreat system is just a disaster waiting to happen. How do you defend your systems? Maybe on the Warp Points, but only if the retreaters are sent back through it (which seems odd if you drive them AWAY from the WP in combat).

Also, once in your system, they can dance around your defenders at will and glass your colonies unless you have local superiority at ALL of them...not likely.

If there was an easy way to implement it, I'm sure it would already be in the game.

Talenn

[Marco]

How about a simpler system where retreat will be allowed only:
1)After a fixed number of round of tactical combat.
2)For ships with a tactical movement greater than enemy ships.
3)Exactly in the location of the strategic map from where the retreating ships come from, just before starting tactical combat.
4)If the retreating ships have strategic movement points left.
5)Eventually the retreat option can be set to cost a number of strategic movement points greater than 1.

This will not allow to bypass defenders with "forward retreat" tactics and, beaucause the retreat move is a backward move to the starting strategic position, it can't start another tactical battle.

[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: Marco ]

[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: Marco ]

[Rollo]

Personally I would not like to have a retreat option back. I always hated to chase down single ships in SE3 until I had them in the corner of the strategic map (which is just as unrealistic as having corners in tactical). So you will always have "no where to run to"-corners, just on different scales.

Just my thoughts,
Rollo

[Marco]

I haven’t played SE 3 but I think that if you make the retreat option cost 2 or more strategic movement points, the retreating ships can't go far away. Once exhausted the strategic movement points left, they will be blocked for the rest of the turn.
I think that the problem is the direction of the retreat in the strategic map if the retreating ships not belong to the moving player, in this case there is not the possibility of a “backward move” in the strategic map and this can trigger others tactical battles. A possible solution is to allow retreat for defending ships only in strategic location without enemy ships and, if possible, in a direction opposite to the direction from where the attacking ships came from in the strategic map.
Marco.