New Mod Nations Game: Mods over Europe (finished)

[Sombre]

Well you did build a lot of the Jomonese cav and it did very well against indies. If you think it's not a worthwhile and buildable unit then could you give me some suggestions about what you'd change. Part of the point of the mod games is to work on balance. It isn't getting better morale though, that's a feature of the race.

Sylvania's sacreds may be overpowered, it's something I'll check out. It might be that fear 0 is just too good for a recruitable massable unit.

[Jazzepi]

It may have just been a combination of the fear + the low morale + archers, some sort of perfect storm.

I built a lot of the calvary because it's the only thing that can play the "catching arrows" game against indies early on, and it doesn't do that terribly well, but they survive well enough to put the hurt on.

If you really wanted to keep the lower morale, that's fine. Maybe the priests could be made a little better like MA C'Tis's selection, or you could give them flight and mapmove 3 so that they'd be easier to keep on the front lines. Since I'm pretty much convinced that you must have the priests to spam sermon of courage on your calvary if you intend to use them, giving them flight and mapmove 3 would make them a lot easier to keep on the front lines, instead of constantly dragging your army down to mapmove 2.

Honestly, I felt like the calvary would have been okay if I had handled them better, but in the situation I was in they felt extremely useless. I think calling them awful is a bit of an overstatement.

Another suggestion I would give is simply to have the very low resource samurai's be mindless. As it stands, I don't think I'd ever build them.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

Well, I don't think you handled the diplomacy deftly.

- If you cut people off, they'll declare war on you. This is a bigger problem in the middle than on the edges, I agree, but there you go. If this had been a wrap around map you'd be in the same situation in that regard, but maybe-so-would-I.

- If you don't want to fight early wars (like, right now), then even if you're in a corner you have to accept being somewhat small, which you didn't do. Even without graphs, people can generally figure out how big you are.

- If, when someone tries to negotiate with you, you threaten to throw the game to the other player, people will tend simply not to negotiate with you at all.

[Morkilus]

How's it going for the rest of you guys? I'm especially curious about Avernum; I had a pretty humiliating loss against the AI with them. I couldn't get their sacreds to do much of anything; they died too quickly. E9 bless maybe? I really like the kitty archers, however, and can imagine a nasty lategame astral powerhouse.

[Sombre]

They don't have armour, so an E9 bless wouldn't work. I think a water astral bless would keep them alive best,... but really the trick is to keep the missile fire off them.

[Jazzepi]

Sombre said:
They don't have armour, so an E9 bless wouldn't work. I think a water astral bless would keep them alive best,... but really the trick is to keep the missile fire off them.

I tested this extensively, I found a high Air bless coupled with a water bless for quickness was best, but in the end it didn't feel like it was worth it to go that route when the only H3 (mobile) priest you have is your prophet. They do enough damage as is with the blades. I wanted to play a research heavy nation anyways, so I decided against playing bless rush in this game.

Jazzepi

[Xox]

Can't connect to the server. Anyone else?

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Love the Europe map. Except it is too small for this number of players. Something about playing on Earth's natural geogrpahy is always pleasing. It also make it easier to refer to the map with other players.

It is undeniable that it makes a huge difference starting in the middle or a corner. it would be nice if someone could make a map that works to fix that. THis effect is increased by the small number of provinces per player an dthe grpahs being on also. Wraparound will help but should be on both sideways and vertical.

And I would actually prefer a good non wrapawround map that worked well for th eguys in the middle. choke points or wealth or ?

You can play with these settings, map, and # of players and 9 out of ten times the corner people will dominate and win.

I will be the first out i think. I started in the middle. I got 60 unrest on turn two due to events ( misfortune scale 2 so that happens) and with the graphs on, the scurvy dog pirates saw my weakness and struck quickly before i could recover. That's a great example of why I, personally, do not like the graphs on. I am sure Sombre used that perfectly reliable intelligence to make his decision on attacking me.

So I just want to say Jazzepi has some very good points he is bringing up. and if you are in the corner or benefit this time from graphs. try to have the vision to overcome your natural bias and see what might be best for the balance of good game.

Great mods by the way, Love Ulm reborn who I am playing this game. My apologies for not doing well by them this game.

The Pirates will be quite vulnerable at this point by the way, before they consolidate my little kingdom and the seas.

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Server connection?

[Xox]

Can't connect to the server. Anyone else?

************************************************** *


Love the Europe map. Except it is too small for this number of players. Something about playing on Earth's natural geogrpahy is always pleasing. It also make it easier to refer to the map with other players.

It is undeniable that it makes a huge difference starting in the middle or a corner. it would be nice if someone could make a map that works to fix that. THis effect is increased by the small number of provinces per player an dthe grpahs being on also. Wraparound will help but should be on both sideways and vertical.

And I would actually prefer a good non wrapawround map that worked well for th eguys in the middle. choke points or wealth or ?

You can play with these settings, map, and # of players and 9 out of ten times the corner people will dominate and win.

I will be the first out i think. I started in the middle. I got 60 unrest on turn two due to events ( misfortune scale 2 so that happens) and with the graphs on, the scurvy dog pirates saw my weakness and struck quickly before i could recover. That's a great example of why I, personally, do not like the graphs on. I am sure Sombre used that perfectly reliable intelligence to make his decision on attacking me.

So I just want to say Jazzepi has some very good points he is bringing up. and if you are in the corner or benefit this time from graphs. try to have the vision to overcome your natural bias and see what might be best for the balance of good game.

Great mods by the way, Love Ulm reborn who I am playing this game. My apologies for not doing well by them this game.

The Pirates will be quite vulnerable at this point by the way, before they consolidate my little kingdom and the seas.

************************

Server connection?

[Jazzepi]

- If you cut people off, they'll declare war on you. This is a bigger problem in the middle than on the edges, I agree, but there you go. If this had been a wrap around map you'd be in the same situation in that regard, but maybe-so-would-I.

The only reason it's so easy for you to declare war on me this game is because you AND your ally are both in corners.

- If you don't want to fight early wars (like, right now), then even if you're in a corner you have to accept being somewhat small, which you didn't do. Even without graphs, people can generally figure out how big you are.

I disagree with this heavily, not only do graphs tell the exact size of your nation, but they basically explain the composition of your army. For instance, I could tell you were massing a large group of low protection units backed up by your sacred tramplers just by looking at the size of your army on the graphs and understanding the units you have available to you.

Also, my insane amount of magic research was put out for display, something people would NEVER normally have access to unless they're in a fight and see a particular spell cast, but even that doesn't tell exactly how much research someone has.

By the combination of having a small army, a large group of provinces, and my huge amount of research all put on display on the graphs it's easy to tell that I would be a vulnerable target. Something that would be much harder to discern, or even impossible, without them.

- If, when someone tries to negotiate with you, you threaten to throw the game to the other player, people will tend simply not to negotiate with you at all. -

I wonder if you're curious why I simply didn't respond to your message over the forums? You constantly threatened immediate war if I didn't give you certain territories (two out of three which I conceded to you), so I find it hypocritical that you think it's bad negotiating to threaten scorched earth tactics.

Do you really think I have anything to lose by promising to attack you solely if you don't leave me alone? If I think I can heavily swing the game in my opponent's opponent's favor, and cripple the original opponent at the same time, obviously I'm going to threaten to do that. It's a big club to beat someone with diplomatically though some people won't respond to it, which is fine.

I didn't threaten to throw the game to the vampires, only to give them an incentive to finish you off and take you out of the running. If them having three capitals means they win the game, that's not my problem.

Jazzepi