Counters to Niefelheim

[jutetrea]

But when he found that the lack of world affecting cold he invented Ilearth!

[Jazzepi]

Xietor said:
I have often blamed KO for prejudice in favor of the cold races. There is a cheap spell that can be cast before battle to allow the battle to be in a cold climate, but no similar spell for heat?!

I would like to drag KO out of his cool climate and have him live here in New Orleans for a year. He would have a new appreciation for Swamps!

I'm really glad that the spells aren't symmetirical. There's nothing as boring as a game that has.

Fireball and Iceball
Fireblast and Iceblast

No, fire and water are completely different paths, and I like it that way! Also, fire has firestorm, and water has a semi-similar spell that deals /fatigue/ damage, but is not nearly as good.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

Good point Jazz. Just a tad suspicious that KO resides in the dreary north, and the MA cold races appear to be far better than the MA heat races. Obviously someone who lives in New Orleans, if he was a developer, might favor some swamp race!

Instead of Vans being feared, people on the forums would be crying about the unstoppable nutria of MA Ctis!

[jutetrea]

While i agree on the theory I think there should be an equivalent in power, possibly not necessarily the same power battlefield spell but possibly a ritual or buff for example.

I do find water to be a relatively weak path unless a water nation, but if a water nation its fine.

For instance, summon earthpower, summon phoenix power, the astral one... all pretty easy to cast and do similar things (astral is the more powerful version but has drawbacks such as gem and fatigue). Summon earthpower probably the best due to reinvig.

Then you have
Air, needs storm, but 1A only?
Water, needs to be in water - real bummer.
Nature, needs high research/paths
Death - nothing?
Blood - horrors, cost, fatigue

Or site searching
A,F,E,N - all thaut 2, nice
D - conj 2, fine, death has very good summons and still early
W - conj 3? WTF?
B - blood 2, makes sense
S - evo 2 - huh?, but still only lvl 2 and evo is pretty popular early

Why does water get screwed here?

There are certain spells where I think parity would be good. Although only the 2 water versions of the 2 above categories annoy me.

Then there are some that kind of make no sense -
Why is murdering winter 50 gems and flames from the sky 35? Level earlier? Aren't both boosted by the temp of the target province? I'm just unaware of the reasoning, although it probably exists.

I can definitely see the draw of having the two paths be different in some sense, but when you have 2 spells that essentially do relatively similar affects, I think it would be nice to have more reasoning behind the different requirements.

[Lingchih]

Xietor said:
Good point Jazz. Just a tad suspicious that KO resides in the dreary north, and the MA cold races appear to be far better than the MA heat races. Obviously someone who lives in New Orleans, if he was a developer, might favor some swamp race!

Instead of Vans being feared, people on the forums would be crying about the unstoppable nutria of MA Ctis!

The unstoppable nutria gave me quite a chuckle. I can see them now, with their big, nasty fangs and miasma auras.

[Kristoffer O]

> Why does water get screwed here?

Because it is way more difficult to tap into the dreams of Apsu, the underground ocean, than it is to speak with the dead. To listen to Tiamat, a being of eaven greater powers, is even more difficult, thus it is more difficult to cast voice of Tiamat, which might seem strange

In short: balance has little to do with it.

I have had thoughts about making voice of Apsu 2W1E, but that might be going a bit too far.

> Then there are some that kind of make no sense -
Why is murdering winter 50 gems and flames from the sky 35? Level earlier? Aren't both boosted by the temp of the target province? I'm just unaware of the reasoning, although it probably exists.

Flames have no temperature effects. It is not armor negating. There is a Wolven Winter to pre-boost the climate for ideal casting temp.

> I can definitely see the draw of having the two paths be different in some sense, but when you have 2 spells that essentially do relatively similar affects, I think it would be nice to have more reasoning behind the different requirements.

Mechanic-wise or thematically?

[Kristoffer O]

Xietor said:
Good point Jazz. Just a tad suspicious that KO resides in the dreary north, and the MA cold races appear to be far better than the MA heat races. Obviously someone who lives in New Orleans, if he was a developer, might favor some swamp race!

Instead of Vans being feared, people on the forums would be crying about the unstoppable nutria of MA Ctis!

You are wrong! It is the fire nations that have no protagonist.

I'm in favour of cold, but JK likes swamps and mud-baths. He was the one that made the swamp feature and the Quagmire spell. It was he who went to India, although he didn't like the crowds and all the people. He prefers undisturbed festering swamps. He's also allergic to fur animals, so he probably likes lizards JK is the friend of swamps!

I prefer mooses.

[HoneyBadger]

Mooses? You mean meese?

[HoneyBadger]

Comparatively, although Niefelheim seems strong because you get big huge tough giants etc. they're actually the weakest of the Heims.

The Niefels themselves are far too specialized to taking on individual, tough foes with their axes, one at a time, but they're so expensive that you're pretty much going to be throwing them against masses of troops.

It's like outfitting someone with an elephant gun and having him go shoot rats.

To expand upon this: the fact is, giants-especially Niefels, do NOT need to be specialized. They're big, tough, powerful, etc.

They're basically tanks.

To maximize their abilities and strengths, they should be equipped much differently than they are, with metal armor-preferrably scale, blunt impact weapons with spread effect-appropriately designed maces, flails, hammers, etc., and mounts, to increase their speed and protect their biggest weakness-their knees.

It's doubtful they'd even see a real need to invent a combat axe or a sword, let alone use them exclusively in combat. Axes and swords are far too precise of weapons, not to mention fragile and expensive, and they do different kinds of damage-axes increase damage from impact, swords are versatile-than what such large beings would want to do in combat.

Smaller giants might use those kinds of weapons for some combat purposes, but for Niefels, it's really inappropriate and wasteful. Swords and axes of that size would become stuck in bodies, especially armored bodies and mounts, which would leave the Niefel vulnerable and off balance in the middle of a combat.

[Kristoffer O]

> Mooses? You mean meese?

What??? For real? Is meese the plural form? Gosh! I will say 'meese' a lot the upcoming week