Hidden in Snow

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

An admittedly rare situation...

In Veturi, there's only three players remaining. Currently,
Ermor was duking it out with Tien Chi whilst I cast Maelstrom, Sea of Ice, Well of Misery, and Riches from Beneath. Obviously, I wasn't going to be able to remain neutral for much longer. So in one of my border provinces and one turn...

5 Castings of Hidden in Snow got me 12 commanders, including mages. I averaged about 4 to 7 Unfrozen Warriors, maybe 14 to 17 Unfrozen per cast.

I spent maybe 275 water gems, plus a water bracelet for each mage. 320 something... Not a small expense- certainly not economical.

Admittedly, it was a surprise attack, this squad faced off against 153 undead and lost 19 (of 107) in return. They were scripted to cleansing water but I probably could have done better. I got a few 2,2,2, but nothing better. Since this is late game, I should have given one earth boots, and scripted, perhaps, Earthpower -> Army of Lead. Though I wasn't there quite yet, I could have been if I focused my research which is near 600 a turn. That alteration path would have also opened up quickening, which I would have been able to cast.

More practically aiming, Strength of Giants is on the Enchantment path, though there isn't much reason to bring that into play against Ermor. I can cast that with just two gems, even with a E1 mage. I could have pulled out some skelly spam of my own to even the odds. I could have cast Legions of Steel (construction 3), to buff my squads protection. Alteration really doesn't have much to offer me for a low research investment.

So, my first real fight was hardly a fair test of their value, but it did get me thinking how I'd make the most use of them, instead of using the mages to cast spells capable of friendly fire.

If I were to adjust the spell itself, I'd do one of two things...
Make it less expensive at 30 gems, making it summon five Unfrozen Warriors, 10 Unfrozen, 1 Unfrozen Lord, and 1 Unfrozen Mage with 1W1D1E 100%, with a 50% shot each at one additional level of water, death, and earth.
This would make it a) more consistent b). guarantee the ability to cast earth buffs, though I would need boosters/gems, along with other spells, and c). make it something I can dream of casting twice early on. If there was still some random factor, this would allow me to compensate for a bad roll.

Make it more expensive, say, 70 or 80 gems. As well, I'd get a minimum of 20 or 30 unfrozen, possibly as much as 60.
This way, instead of five castings getting me 105 unfrozen, I'd get that amount in four casting or less. I'm not going to hammer out exact numbers, but I'm thinking making the per gem roughly the same or somewhat better, but making an individual casting cost maybe 50% more, and be 50% more effective, plus somewhat reliable.

As it is, you may cast Hidden in Snow, and get around ten units- hardly enough to use as part of a fighting force, especially considering their weaknesses compared to wights. If you know you're getting at least 25, or so, you've got an additional strike force you can summon up in a pinch. They're not elites, but with some buff spells, their hardly a laughing matter, and could carve through unprepared armies. And you at least get greater numbers to differentiate them from a legion of wights. I've always thought from an unreasoning standpoint that a tribe should be forty units. I mean, I hardly see less when fighting independent wolf tribes. And while I don't see a reason for this, some banefire bows might be interesting.

[Burnsaber]

I'm very dissapointed in this spell. I have casted it 5 times (in MP nonetheless!) and hit no mages. It's simply not fun. I had Enchnament bonus site, but still those could have been spend elsewhere.

A bit of randomness is cool, but I just don't think that Hidden In Snow is anyway near it's appropiate gem cost, if it can backfire this much.

[Lingchih]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
An admittedly rare situation...

In Veturi, there's only three players remaining. Currently,
Ermor was duking it out with Tien Chi whilst I cast Maelstrom, Sea of Ice, Well of Misery, and Riches from Beneath. Obviously, I wasn't going to be able to remain neutral for much longer. So in one of my border provinces and one turn...

5 Castings of Hidden in Snow got me 12 commanders, including mages. I averaged about 4 to 7 Unfrozen Warriors, maybe 14 to 17 Unfrozen per cast.

I spent maybe 275 water gems, plus a water bracelet for each mage. 320 something... Not a small expense- certainly not economical.

Admittedly, it was a surprise attack, this squad faced off against 153 undead and lost 19 (of 107) in return. They were scripted to cleansing water but I probably could have done better. I got a few 2,2,2, but nothing better. Since this is late game, I should have given one earth boots, and scripted, perhaps, Earthpower -> Army of Lead. Though I wasn't there quite yet, I could have been if I focused my research which is near 600 a turn. That alteration path would have also opened up quickening, which I would have been able to cast.

More practically aiming, Strength of Giants is on the Enchantment path, though there isn't much reason to bring that into play against Ermor. I can cast that with just two gems, even with a E1 mage. I could have pulled out some skelly spam of my own to even the odds. I could have cast Legions of Steel (construction 3), to buff my squads protection. Alteration really doesn't have much to offer me for a low research investment.

So, my first real fight was hardly a fair test of their value, but it did get me thinking how I'd make the most use of them, instead of using the mages to cast spells capable of friendly fire.

If I were to adjust the spell itself, I'd do one of two things...
Make it less expensive at 30 gems, making it summon five Unfrozen Warriors, 10 Unfrozen, 1 Unfrozen Lord, and 1 Unfrozen Mage with 1W1D1E 100%, with a 50% shot each at one additional level of water, death, and earth.
This would make it a) more consistent b). guarantee the ability to cast earth buffs, though I would need boosters/gems, along with other spells, and c). make it something I can dream of casting twice early on. If there was still some random factor, this would allow me to compensate for a bad roll.

Make it more expensive, say, 70 or 80 gems. As well, I'd get a minimum of 20 or 30 unfrozen, possibly as much as 60.
This way, instead of five castings getting me 105 unfrozen, I'd get that amount in four casting or less. I'm not going to hammer out exact numbers, but I'm thinking making the per gem roughly the same or somewhat better, but making an individual casting cost maybe 50% more, and be 50% more effective, plus somewhat reliable.

As it is, you may cast Hidden in Snow, and get around ten units- hardly enough to use as part of a fighting force, especially considering their weaknesses compared to wights. If you know you're getting at least 25, or so, you've got an additional strike force you can summon up in a pinch. They're not elites, but with some buff spells, their hardly a laughing matter, and could carve through unprepared armies. And you at least get greater numbers to differentiate them from a legion of wights. I've always thought from an unreasoning standpoint that a tribe should be forty units. I mean, I hardly see less when fighting independent wolf tribes. And while I don't see a reason for this, some banefire bows might be interesting.

Nice. I've never spammed Hidden in Snow, but it sounds effective. I assume that would give you a fairly nice undead attack force, with fairly high HP, along with quite a few mages. I'm not sure I could ever replicate that in a real game, but it sounds interesting.

[Kristoffer O]

I got a D3E3W2 and a D2 W2 mage on my first casting. But that is probably ridiculously rare.

[Caduceus]

Kristoffer O said:
I got a D3E3W2 and a D2 W2 mage on my first casting. But that is probably ridiculously rare.

I think the game is playing favorites. FAVORITES, I SAY!!

[jutetrea]

He hacked the code!

[Kristoffer O]

> I think the game is playing favorites. FAVORITES, I SAY!!

I'm inclined to agree. I'ver had more luck in my game than anyone deserves. Especially in the beginning when it counts the most.

[vfb]

Time to resurrect an old thread ... can Hidden In Snow get some help from Cold or Luck scales in the next patch?

2 casts in MP, the 1st one gave 25 warriors total and a D1 mage ... not too terribly shabby, especially for a nation with horrible upkeep problems, a bit of surplus water, and dire need of ground forces AKA chaff. But the second cast gave no mages, and a whopping total of 7 units. In a cold-3 luck-3 province. Should have just gone for another Kokythiad, and it would even have been cheaper.

Edit:
Whoops, I gotta learn how to count. 6 units for 55 water gems, not 7:
1 Unfrozen Lord
1 Flint Sword guy
4 Stone Spear guys

That's got to be the saddest tribe ever. More of a little nuclear family than a tribe, really.

[Lingchih]

Wow, that second cast was bad. I think I have always gotten the 25 undead warriors, though the mages are always kind of iffy. I haven't cast it in ages though, probably two patches ago was the last time I cast it.