Mists of Deception -- exploit??

[K]

And Kris O. is also famous for saying that he doesn't know every feature of the game unless he goes back and looks at the source code.... and thats not surprising, considering that he's the content developer and the other guy does most or all of the programming.

But back to the discussion:

Killing one mage is really easy in the late game. You send in a few high HP mages to cast battle field-destroying magics, and the anyone with merely human mages loses (which is the vast majority of nations).

At least if the spells don't leave the battlefield, then everyone tends to die (meaning that its a costly tactic for attacker and defender).

[Velusion]

This whole discussion comes as news to me. Casting battlefield enchants and running away is a relatively common tactic in MP games... I've used it many times and had it used against me.

Because the spells function the way they are described (they say the caster has to die to cancel the spell) I'm not sure why people assumed this was a bug in the first place...

[Jazzepi]

The concern, if I've read it right, is that mist of deceptions continues to stay around even after all the mages are gone AND enemy army. So you can string Mist of Deceptions + any battlefield wide nuker/disabler together ridiculous army crippling combos.

For example.

You could teleport in a mage with a staff of storms cast mist of deception, teleport him out with returning, while another mage teleports in at the same time with the solar brilliance item and casts returning as well. Until the 50 turn limit comes up, and your enemy's units route, they're forced to run around the battlefield attacking the Mist of Deceptions units. While this is happening, the secondary enchantment is devastating their entire army.

So basically you've turned two mages into an unstoppable army killing machine. The staff of storms prevents anyone from flying to their location, so the only way you're going to kill them is if it you have a bunch of guys set to slay soul near the front of your army.

To me, this is an exploit. These battlefield wide enchantments are clearly suppose to be balanced by two things.

1. They go away when the caster dies, which implies 2.
2. You have to have a big enough army to sit around and die while the other army is riddled with afflictions/dies to the enchantment.

Since you're eliminating both of the drawbacks by abusing the way the battles end, and actually making them better with the returning (the casters can do this strategy EVERY TURN as they're returned to a province with a lab), I'd definitely call it an exploit.

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

Jazzepi said:
The concern, if I've read it right, is that mist of deceptions continues to stay around even after all the mages are gone AND enemy army. So you can string Mist of Deceptions + any battlefield wide nuker/disabler together ridiculous army crippling combos.

For example.

You could teleport in a mage with a staff of storms cast mist of deception, teleport him out with returning, while another mage teleports in at the same time with the solar brilliance item and casts returning as well. Until the 50 turn limit comes up, and your enemy's units route, they're forced to run around the battlefield attacking the Mist of Deceptions units. While this is happening, the secondary enchantment is devastating their entire army.

So basically you've turned two mages into an unstoppable army killing machine. The staff of storms prevents anyone from flying to their location, so the only way you're going to kill them is if it you have a bunch of guys set to slay soul near the front of your army.

To me, this is an exploit. These battlefield wide enchantments are clearly suppose to be balanced by two things.

1. They go away when the caster dies, which implies 2.
2. You have to have a big enough army to sit around and die while the other army is riddled with afflictions/dies to the enchantment.

Since you're eliminating both of the drawbacks by abusing the way the battles end, and actually making them better with the returning (the casters can do this strategy EVERY TURN as they're returned to a province with a lab), I'd definitely call it an exploit.

Jazzepi

There is going to be a problem enforcing this in MP play though if we actually consider this an exploit. So now are we saying you can't script retreat/return and use any sort of battle field wide spell??? Our only options are to commit our mages completely to the battle if we cast em?

P.S. In your example I didn't think you could teleport into on ongoing battle.

[Evilhomer]

Perhaps just ban mists of deception until this issue is resolved.

[Ewierl]

Velusion said:There is going to be a problem enforcing this in MP play though if we actually consider this an exploit. So now are we saying you can't script retreat/return and use any sort of battle field wide spell??? Our only options are to commit our mages completely to the battle if we cast em?

Mists of Deception is a specific, exceptional problem because it constantly generates units, which prevents the battle from ever ending, even in the absence of any real troops. You can force an opponent into the long-battle auto-rout even after every single one of your troops has died or fled.

More in the realm of opnion, though, I'd say that yes: you should have to commit your mage to the battle if you want that mage's powers to exist on the battlefield. Even if "battlefield enchantments stay through mage retreat" isn't a bug, though, this usage of Mists of Deception smacks of exploit. The spell is self-perpetuating! It only stays in effect because of the creatures it itself summons!

[Tuidjy]

As far as I am concerned, casting a battlefield enchantment and retreating is not
an exploit if you leave someone to fight. If the only thing you leave is the
creatures generated by Mists of Deception, it does feel like an exploit. I will
not use that particular combo in my games... but I am not sure how upset I would
be with someone who uses it on me.

By the way, aren't there other enchantments like this? Maybe less hard to get
rid of, but wasn't there something that summons wolves, sharks, etc..?

[CUnknown]

Yeah, School of Sharks (or is it Shark Attack?) would be the same thing for underwater I believe..

I agree that as long as you leave someone behind to fight, it is legitimate to cast battlefield enchantments and then returning. Although I wouldn't mind one bit if this "bug" were fixed in the next patch, in fact I'd prefer it that way. But as things stand, it should be allowed.

The Mists of Deception thing was just out of control though.. I agree it would be hard to police, and maybe it shouldn't be, either. The host would need to state that Mists of Deception is banned ahead of time, or I can understand why people might think it was allowed. And even that spell is perfectly fine in most cases.