Mists of Deception -- exploit??

[Ewierl]

Velusion said:There is going to be a problem enforcing this in MP play though if we actually consider this an exploit. So now are we saying you can't script retreat/return and use any sort of battle field wide spell??? Our only options are to commit our mages completely to the battle if we cast em?

Mists of Deception is a specific, exceptional problem because it constantly generates units, which prevents the battle from ever ending, even in the absence of any real troops. You can force an opponent into the long-battle auto-rout even after every single one of your troops has died or fled.

More in the realm of opnion, though, I'd say that yes: you should have to commit your mage to the battle if you want that mage's powers to exist on the battlefield. Even if "battlefield enchantments stay through mage retreat" isn't a bug, though, this usage of Mists of Deception smacks of exploit. The spell is self-perpetuating! It only stays in effect because of the creatures it itself summons!

[Tuidjy]

As far as I am concerned, casting a battlefield enchantment and retreating is not
an exploit if you leave someone to fight. If the only thing you leave is the
creatures generated by Mists of Deception, it does feel like an exploit. I will
not use that particular combo in my games... but I am not sure how upset I would
be with someone who uses it on me.

By the way, aren't there other enchantments like this? Maybe less hard to get
rid of, but wasn't there something that summons wolves, sharks, etc..?

[CUnknown]

Yeah, School of Sharks (or is it Shark Attack?) would be the same thing for underwater I believe..

I agree that as long as you leave someone behind to fight, it is legitimate to cast battlefield enchantments and then returning. Although I wouldn't mind one bit if this "bug" were fixed in the next patch, in fact I'd prefer it that way. But as things stand, it should be allowed.

The Mists of Deception thing was just out of control though.. I agree it would be hard to police, and maybe it shouldn't be, either. The host would need to state that Mists of Deception is banned ahead of time, or I can understand why people might think it was allowed. And even that spell is perfectly fine in most cases.

[Ewierl]

I don't know this for 100% certain, but I think Shark Attack works differently- the sharks only come when units get wounded, mainly. If there's no battle going on, they'll stop coming.

[thejeff]

But as long as the sharks are there, units keep getting wounded. It is self reinforcing. Takes a while to get going, so you'd need some fodder to start with.
I'm not sure how it would last once the regular forces are gone.

[Baalz]

Yeah, outside of mists of deception combo it seems
1) Like a valid tactic
2) Impossible to even tell for sure if the mage retreated on purpose
3) Considering it an exploit would make things like the horror harmonica completely unusable. To a lesser degree lots of stuff is much harder to use if you have to commit to *never* withdrawing the caster.
4) Not obvious - you can't expect everyone in a MP game to have read this thread. Most everyone does this now and it doesn't seem exploitive, people are going to continue to do it because they don't consider it an exploit.

So, IMHO, good thing to fix as a bug but outside of mists of deception combo a valid tactic.

[Xietor]

It is not really open to debate. If the developer says it is a major bug and is on the short list to be fixed-it is a major bug.

While you may agree or disagree with whether or not it SHOULD be fixed, I do not think you can argue that it is not a bug when the developers say it is.

As an aside, what is so wrong with sacrificing a mage to take out an enemy army? Sure you lose the mage, but if he kills more than the cost of the mage, the battlefield spells are still worth it.

In one of my mp games I use mages to cast foul vapors and left them on the field of battle until they died. It is still worth it when you cripple a big army and only lose a few mages.

People wanting to kill a whole army and not even risk the mage casting the spell seems like a bit much.

[Baalz]

You're right, it's not open to debate. I'm just saying getting pissed at people who do it is only going to result in high blood pressure until a change is made by the developers. Trying to "ban" it for MP is futile.

[Reverend Zombie]

Xietor said:
It is not really open to debate. If the developer says it is a major bug and is on the short list to be fixed-it is a major bug.

While you may agree or disagree with whether or not it SHOULD be fixed, I do not think you can argue that it is not a bug when the developers say it is.

Everything's open to debate, though, isn't it? There's plenty of stuff that works as designed that we try to get the devs to change on these boards.

There's no harm in trying to convince them not to fix it if you feel strongly about it.