Most powerful nation

[Endoperez]

Well, things change. Here are some of the bigger changes from the ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html :



MA Vanheim
* MA van home only. Gold cost increase.

Mictlan
* Jaguar warrior 25 gold.
* All Mictlan troops forest survival.
* Mictlan MA priest added air random to reflect the arrival of the sky priests.
* Jade Serpent Mictlan summon.
* Mictlan MA sky priest.
* Mictlan moon warrior (nonsacred elite).


MA Ermor
* Shadow vestal cost increase


LA C'tis
* Keeper of tombs slightly less expensive, LA sauromancer slightly more expensive.
* Unholy bless fix.
* Tomb chariot reanimation enabled.
* Tombwyrm & chariot works

T'ien Chi (at least MA, perhaps EA/LA as well)
* Ministry Guardsman.
* Minister of Magic.
* Ministry of Rituals and ceremonial master made fortune tellers.
* Slightly altered descr for ministers etc.
* New spells for TC: Thousand Year Ginseng, Inner Alchemy.
* Conscription made more viable.
* Apothecary, Alchemist of the Five Elements, Imperial Alchemist, Imperial Geomancer.

Abysia
* Demonbreds not truly demons to disable their unthematic reanimation.
* LA Anathemant Salamander not only home anymore.


Bless rushes are going down (Van, Ermor, Mictlan) while at least LA C'tis, perhaps Tien Chi are going up. LA Abysia is going to be much better (F2 non-capital mage!), but the loss of demonbred reanimation hurts MA.

[WraithLord]

I assume from all the reports here that Lanka is indeed a very good nation. Although my small experience with Lanka in the Boil the Ocean game (which has ended prematurely due to technical issues) showed it to be eliminated early on in the game. Admittedly, this could very well have resulted from the fact that Lanka is perceived as a strong nation which caused two of its neighbors to rush it early on. But then again this in itself is a weakness (as was said here before).

I think MA Pythium is being underestimated here and in general. I would assume that this may relate to the fact that its not straightforward to get the best performance out of this nation. I have used it very successfully in MP games with very good results (Jinxed Frechdachs comes to mind and also the current Dagur game). It has one of the strongest astral mages in the game (astral I believe is the strongest magic path), Hydras, access to angels and communion. All of which are not straightforward to use and may even backfire or be exploited against you if used wrongly.

I would place EA and MA Caelum high on the list of best nations for three reasons. Mammoths, Flight, cloud trapeze. Mammoths is for early game. Flight gives extreme strategic and tactical options. While cloud trapeze is an end game finishing move. Just imagine huge armies of seraphs popping out of thin air, pumping out air elementals, storm and wrathful skies. All of those factors I can attest from my experience are extremely effective. I have used them against unlikely odds in MP games (WOOF comes to mind here) and I think in general Caelum is doing quite well in the winning nations thread.

All the above represents my opinion based on my experience. In truth I think only statistics can be a real indication of a nation's strength because the factors are so many.

[Xietor]

"I think MA Pythium is being underestimated here and in general."

How so? I ranked them 1 in power in the ma.

And yes if you got eliminated early in the game as lanka you likely did not have a double 9 bless and likely did not maximize their abilities.

K should write a guide for EA Lanka.

[Valandil]

And how on earth can Angels backfire?

[Frostmourne27]

Thinking the angels of the heavenly choir are useful and sending them in solo vs an army? I dunno - pythium seems like a pretty easy bet for top spot in ME. Only a few nations - possibly man or R'yleh, maybe Vanheim on small maps - can compete with them.

[K]

Removed.

[Hadrian_II]

K said:
1. The EA nations got killed off in Perpetuality because they mostly all have capital only recruitable mages. At the end of the day they lacked the raw firepower needed to make it to the middle and late game where powerful mages really shine.

Most of the EA Nations where killed very early, and i dont think the mages had much to do with it, i think the unarmored EA Armies just got walked over by the armored ones of MA and LA.

K said:
As someone who has been called "the greatest monkey commander that ever lived", I can say with some authority that Lanka has an incredible early game, no midgame, and their late game is questionable at best. Have you ever tried to actually cast the big Air spells when only 1 out of 3 of your capital-only mages has at best an Air 3?

Dakinis are A3D1B3 and are just 50 slaves if you empower one of them you have access to the air boosters and all the big Air spells.

K said:
They also don't get enough Death to be a real Death nation. Death 3 is the minimum you need to do real Death magic in battle, and they just don't have it.

But there are mages with Death 2 and this is enough to bootstrap yourelf up to death 5. (moundfiend with skull staff and the +1D Helmet)

K said:
Overall, they are a passably good Early nation, but there are better.

I just checked them out, and i think they are very strong. There might have some trouble in Midgame, as they need some Bootstrapping for Air and Death Magic but later on you become a real juggernaut. One benefit of being lana is that you dont really need scales, maybe growth, but i think there are less other nations that can take turmoil and sloth without much problems.

Also all your troops are sacred and with Mandahas you get H3 mages to bless them. A Rakshasa Warrior for 5 slaves is an good unit to make the mand fightingpower of your armies, if your enemy does not have enough archers Asrapas for 2 slaves can be very effective.

You have also stealthy sacreds (Sandhyabalas) and stealthy priests (Manushya Rakshasi).

Also as you can summon almost everything you need, it should be possible to bloodhunt in every province you own, maybe with the exception of the capitol and some plains to pay the upkeep for your bloodhunters and to recruit new Raksharajas.

I think i will try to get them for evermore.

[WraithLord]

Valandil said:
And how on earth can Angels backfire?

Hehe, I'm to concise/cryptic/tired for my own good

My comment was more strongly pointed at Hydras (oops - dead poisoned army) and communions (exploding armies, over fatigued slaves dying in droves)
Angels can't backfire of course but used wrongly they will be counter productive. This is a general statement that's true for most summons. Some examples that do come to mind are using Seraphs against rival astral nation and sub par usage of harbringers (which can be awesome in some situations and pathetic in others).

[WraithLord]

Xietor said:
"I think MA Pythium is being underestimated here and in general."

How so? I ranked them 1 in power in the ma.

And yes if you got eliminated early in the game as lanka you likely did not have a double 9 bless and likely did not maximize their abilities.

K should write a guide for EA Lanka.

Sorry, I've probably missed your post. Though the general tone in this thread didn't seem to rank Pythium at all.

Ahmm, I wasn't eliminated as Lanka, I was watching this happen as the neighboring Abysia
And its very likely that player did take double bless.

[K]

Removed.