The MA Ulm issue.

[DrPraetorious]

The dom2 history is worth a lot - people have a lot of affection for the nations that were in previous games. Also, people like Ulm for the schtick - which I think it is important to preserve.

Marverni is probably even more troubled than Ulm, but it is a strong magic nation, so the fix (better magic) is less controversial.

There is general agreement that other underpowered nations *exist*, but not what they are. I myself vascillate a lot:
- I used to think Bandar Log and MA Agartha were underpowered. In MP games I feel that I have been proved wrong IN THE FACE, which is the best way to be proven wrong, no question.
- I've lost a lot of respect for Patala. But it's in the late age, and I don't play in the late age that much.

That said, I think that Ulm and Marverni are the only nations so weak that some kind of fix is needed. There are other slightly weak nations, but good luck with a slightly weak nation puts you in a better position than average luck with a decent nation, so they are close enough to balanced.

For MA Ulm, I propose:
* A national version of Legions of Steel that benefits the entire battlefield - both sides. This punishes summoned units (natural Prot isn't boosted) to some extent, and is a good combo with...
* A national version of Weapons of Sharpness that benefits your entire army at once.
* A national version of Haste for your entire army at once.
* A spell that removes fatigue and possibly heals damage from your troops. I'm not sure how well the computer would target it so this needs experimentation.
* Efficient single target damage spells to deal with raiding supercombatants (and supercombatants generally).
* National spells that inflict feeblemind, to deal with enemy mages, evening the field in that respect.
* National spells that inflict detrimental conditions on hostile sacred units, so that they fight on an even field with your national troops.
* A national spell that puts up a City, lower research level and easier to cast than Wizards' Tower.
* "Mechanical" national summons for *non-combat roles* - ritual spell-casting, preventing bad events, protecting stacks from mindhunt, etc.

With this arsenal of spells (all located in Constr and Thaum), Ulm remains a nation of Men, but has the resourced needed to, at least theoretically, fight all the monsters and sorcerers on something of an equal footing, and with no changes in the army list *at all*.

[Warhammer]

What if, instead of wholesale changes, we just give Ulmish troops some reinvigoration? This would refelect their super increased training since they shun magic. Or, alternately, give them a national spell that removes fatigue from the troops.

[Sombre]

I think messing with Ulmish base stats is not something KO would go for. He likes only a slight difference from other humans - see Firbolg - bigger but only slightly better stats. Same deal with Ulmish - they get an extra 1 hp and that's about it :]

On the other hand, I think their special blacksteel armour could justifiably be 1 or so less encumbering, or even stronger, because it's supposed to be special and because the troops would clearly have trained in it often, building up the muscle needed to carry it around without tiring instantly.

I like Dr Ps idea to give them spells themed on legions of steel and weapons of sharpness (though not necessarily the exact spells he suggests). You could also give them a construction school spell which reduces enc, removes fatigue or gives reinvig, explaining that it reminds the Ulmish of their proud heritage and lightens the weight of the armour. Of course you can't allow the mages to go spamming this on themselves.

I think a standard unit would be fine.

I totally disagree with any suggestion to give Ulm a cheap crossbow unit, because then they'll just build crossbow armies with a handful of the cheapest tower shield guys at the front. Doesn't encourage use of their diverse (and sadly rather crappy) infantry at all.

On the subject of actually hitting stuff - Ulm could justifiably have superior versions of basic weapons. Blacksteel flail, blacksteel sword, Ulmish hammer etc. These could carry att 1 def 1 or whatever, representing the kind of quality seen in the Jomonese weapons.

[Ming]

I am late in joining this thread and most of what I wanted to say has already been said already. It seems that there is indeed a consensus that MA Ulm is too weak. Both the arbalest and black steel plate are of dubious value. However, no consensus on how to strengthen Ulm without changing its flavor as a non-magic nation has emerged. I would like to share my views on this as I hate to see Ulm lose its current flavor in the process of being strengthened.

I share many players’ view that the arbalest and black steel armour needs to be strengthened. My proposal would be to increase the precision of the arbalest to 3 (this should reduce casualty due to friendly fire significantly and make the opening volley more effective), change the crossbowman’s short sword to dagger (even a short sword is too much extra weight if one has to carry the heavy arbalest), and increase the total resource cost of the unit by 2. For black steel plate armour, simply reduce its encumbrance by one (this includes the forged black steel plate to make it more viable).

However, in my view MA Ulm’s true weakness does not lie in its arbalest or black steel armour, but in the lack of variety of its troops. It is easy for a human opponent to bypass Ulm’s strength (high protection but usually at the expense of low defense) while it is next to impossible for the Ulm player to adequately prepare for the many possible threats that could ruin its armies. My proposed “upgrade” for Ulm is relatively simple. Hence Ulm is always much stronger in SP than in MP. However, all that is needed to rectify this, in my opinion, is to change the standard equipment of its troops. Many of the standard equipment given to Ulm’s units are sub-optimal. Given that Ulm is a non-magic nation, it needs to be the strongest in non-magic units to compensate for its relative lack of magic abilities. So there should be no reason why it should not have access to the best non-magical weapons that is widely available to many nations and independents (eg. great swords and crossbows).

My recommended changes below would make Ulm difficult to beat on non-magical battles, but the key to beating Ulm is always through magical means and this remain the case. It strengthens Ulm considerably against independents but not overwhelming so since resource restrictions would limit the size of its army early on.

First of all, black plate infantry does not benefit much from shields. Its defense is so low that the shield parry can often be bypassed. So they should be given two handed weapons or ambidextrous ability.

Going through the list of MA Ulm’s recruitable units, I would recommend that the two battleaxe units should be equipped with great swords instead. The 2 extra resources needed for great swords are barely noticeable for Ulm but the increase in attack and defense will make a difference.

Ulm doesn’t need two flail carrying units. The Infantry of Ulm flail unit should be given crossbow and short sword instead and renamed crossbowman (the arbalest carrying unit should be renamed heavy crossbowman). This should become the main Ulm missile unit while the heavy crossbowman is to counter the likes of trolls. The Black Steel flail unit can remain as is (but has one less encumbrance due to change in the stat of the black steel plate).

The Infantry of Ulm hammer and shield units should be given broadsword and shields instead. The 2 extra defense comes in handy given the lower protection of the plate cuirass. The black steel hammer and shield unit should be given glaives instead. Alternatively, change it to a cavalry unit. Ulm can do with a cheaper and lighter cavalry unit for flanking and chasing down retreating enemies. Suggest one with same equipment and resource cost as a knight, the basic stat of Ulm infantry, and cost 40G.

Mauls are inferior to greatswords (or battleaxes) in every way and are therefore redundant. The resource saving is meaningless for Ulm. Suggest giving them ambidextrous 2 and 2 hammers instead.

The infantry of Ulm morning star and shield unit can stay as is (my favourite standard Ulm unit), but the black steel infantry should be given ambidextrous 2, Morningstar, and dagger instead.

The weapons of the pike units can stay as it.

The black knight unit is a problem. Its low defense (easily hit by an opponent’s lance) and 2 less action points makes it inferior to, say, Man’s cheaper knights in many respects. I would favour the Black Knight getting a black steel morningstar that has +1 attack (+2 in total) and +2 damage (+8 in total) for the cost of 5 extra resources. Also give it 18 damage to compensate for its 2 less action points so that its lance is as potent as other cavalry.

The sapper should have their crossbows replaced by bombs (range=strength, precision=minus 2, ammo=5, 10AP area one physical damage, and attacks every other turn). This is more in line with the theme of a sapper and gives Ulm more variety to its missile attacks.

Finally, the guardian should be given a new weapon, black steel halberd. This would have the same stat as the original halberd but does 2 extra damage and cost 5 extra resource.

As to the commanders, no need to have 2 chain mail and two black steel commanders with similar weapons. Suggest having one with identical equipment as the new crossbowman, one with identical equipment as the heavy crossbowman (arbalest), one broadsword, shield, and full chainmail, and one ambidextrous 2 with 2 hammers and full plate of Ulm. The engineer should be equipped with crossbows, and the Lord Guardian black steel halberd. This should give the Ulm player far more choices to suit different situations.

I deliberately leave Ulm weak against many of its traditional counters (AP and AN attacks, ethereal, etc.) to retain the original flavor of the nation. However, with my suggested changes the Ulm player can narrow down its problems and concentrate on those.

The above are just my personal view. Any comments or criticism are welcome.

[Burnsaber]

DrPraetorious said:
..*lots of stuff*..
with no changes in the army list *at all*.

Hmm. Those are not certainly bad ideas, but I really think that Ulm shouldn't rely on his mages in order to have his troops "not suck". It'be like this;

Ulm soldier: Damn we hate mages. They're like vile and stuff.
*enemy attacks*
Ulm Soldier: Where are our Mages? We need buffs to not run away/ die to exhaustion/to hit opponents! We are DOOMED!

Besides, I don't that AP weapons are necessary. Ulm troops already have high damage weapons and good strenght. They just need to actually hit troops.

[Xietor]

"Besides, I don't that AP weapons are necessary. Ulm troops already have high damage weapons and good strength. They just need to actually hit troops."

I do. MA man's KOA have ap. Vans may as well have it as you will never see one without an ap double attack.

Why should a nation who relies on steel and has a forge bonus be unable to forge an ap weapon for its best soldiers?

[Nikolai]

> Are they -so- unbalanced that you just can't win with them against good players? Certainly not, I've won with them before,

News flash! They were NOT good player, if they lost with Ulm. Unless by "won with them" you mean - I was someone's smith ***** since turn one, and we ganged a real nation.

Ulm is helpless to blesses, SCs, tramplers, and even good human infantry supported by priest (on turn 1) If you get a SC to stop them, you sacrifice diversity... and because you need scales, their SC is better anyway.

[PyroStock]

The nation of steel should not be subpar in combat to almost every other nation. I would give their black knights a 1h sword of sharpness as well. MA Ulm's warriors should be feared-not ridiculed.

"Mechanical" national summons for *non-combat roles* - ritual spell-casting, preventing bad events, protecting stacks from mindhunt, etc.

their special blacksteel armour could justifiably be 1 or so less encumbering, or even stronger, because it's supposed to be special and because the troops would clearly have trained in it often, building up the muscle needed to carry it around without tiring instantly.
On the subject of actually hitting stuff - Ulm could justifiably have superior versions of basic weapons. Blacksteel flail, blacksteel sword, Ulmish hammer etc. These could carry att 1 def 1 or whatever, representing the kind of quality seen in the Jomonese weapons.

I like these best.

The AP swords, even if sometimes unnecessary in troop battles would make them a little more threatening against SCs. Similiar to what Micah mentioned in the Most Useful Research thread about weapons of sharpness, except Ulm's black knights wouldn't need a mage to cast weapons of sharpness.

If some feel Dr.P's constructs/summons are "too magical for Ulm" then maybe a high cost/resource national unit. Expanding on the anti-mind attack idea, perhaps an expensive immobile/slow unit that acts like a giant lightning rod or dome (low % based on balance) since they fear magic so much. An Ulm only dome spell with a low research requirement is another idea.