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View Poll Results: Do you think that MA Ulm is underpowered?
Yes 52 85.25%
No 9 14.75%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old September 21st, 2007, 06:00 PM

Warhammer Warhammer is offline
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Default Re: The MA Ulm issue.

What if, instead of wholesale changes, we just give Ulmish troops some reinvigoration? This would refelect their super increased training since they shun magic. Or, alternately, give them a national spell that removes fatigue from the troops.
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  #2  
Old September 21st, 2007, 06:37 PM

Sombre Sombre is offline
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Default Re: The MA Ulm issue.

I think messing with Ulmish base stats is not something KO would go for. He likes only a slight difference from other humans - see Firbolg - bigger but only slightly better stats. Same deal with Ulmish - they get an extra 1 hp and that's about it :]

On the other hand, I think their special blacksteel armour could justifiably be 1 or so less encumbering, or even stronger, because it's supposed to be special and because the troops would clearly have trained in it often, building up the muscle needed to carry it around without tiring instantly.

I like Dr Ps idea to give them spells themed on legions of steel and weapons of sharpness (though not necessarily the exact spells he suggests). You could also give them a construction school spell which reduces enc, removes fatigue or gives reinvig, explaining that it reminds the Ulmish of their proud heritage and lightens the weight of the armour. Of course you can't allow the mages to go spamming this on themselves.

I think a standard unit would be fine.

I totally disagree with any suggestion to give Ulm a cheap crossbow unit, because then they'll just build crossbow armies with a handful of the cheapest tower shield guys at the front. Doesn't encourage use of their diverse (and sadly rather crappy) infantry at all.

On the subject of actually hitting stuff - Ulm could justifiably have superior versions of basic weapons. Blacksteel flail, blacksteel sword, Ulmish hammer etc. These could carry att 1 def 1 or whatever, representing the kind of quality seen in the Jomonese weapons.
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  #3  
Old October 9th, 2007, 09:20 AM
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Ming Ming is offline
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Default Re: The MA Ulm issue.

I am late in joining this thread and most of what I wanted to say has already been said already. It seems that there is indeed a consensus that MA Ulm is too weak. Both the arbalest and black steel plate are of dubious value. However, no consensus on how to strengthen Ulm without changing its flavor as a non-magic nation has emerged. I would like to share my views on this as I hate to see Ulm lose its current flavor in the process of being strengthened.

I share many players’ view that the arbalest and black steel armour needs to be strengthened. My proposal would be to increase the precision of the arbalest to 3 (this should reduce casualty due to friendly fire significantly and make the opening volley more effective), change the crossbowman’s short sword to dagger (even a short sword is too much extra weight if one has to carry the heavy arbalest), and increase the total resource cost of the unit by 2. For black steel plate armour, simply reduce its encumbrance by one (this includes the forged black steel plate to make it more viable).

However, in my view MA Ulm’s true weakness does not lie in its arbalest or black steel armour, but in the lack of variety of its troops. It is easy for a human opponent to bypass Ulm’s strength (high protection but usually at the expense of low defense) while it is next to impossible for the Ulm player to adequately prepare for the many possible threats that could ruin its armies. My proposed “upgrade” for Ulm is relatively simple. Hence Ulm is always much stronger in SP than in MP. However, all that is needed to rectify this, in my opinion, is to change the standard equipment of its troops. Many of the standard equipment given to Ulm’s units are sub-optimal. Given that Ulm is a non-magic nation, it needs to be the strongest in non-magic units to compensate for its relative lack of magic abilities. So there should be no reason why it should not have access to the best non-magical weapons that is widely available to many nations and independents (eg. great swords and crossbows).

My recommended changes below would make Ulm difficult to beat on non-magical battles, but the key to beating Ulm is always through magical means and this remain the case. It strengthens Ulm considerably against independents but not overwhelming so since resource restrictions would limit the size of its army early on.

First of all, black plate infantry does not benefit much from shields. Its defense is so low that the shield parry can often be bypassed. So they should be given two handed weapons or ambidextrous ability.

Going through the list of MA Ulm’s recruitable units, I would recommend that the two battleaxe units should be equipped with great swords instead. The 2 extra resources needed for great swords are barely noticeable for Ulm but the increase in attack and defense will make a difference.

Ulm doesn’t need two flail carrying units. The Infantry of Ulm flail unit should be given crossbow and short sword instead and renamed crossbowman (the arbalest carrying unit should be renamed heavy crossbowman). This should become the main Ulm missile unit while the heavy crossbowman is to counter the likes of trolls. The Black Steel flail unit can remain as is (but has one less encumbrance due to change in the stat of the black steel plate).

The Infantry of Ulm hammer and shield units should be given broadsword and shields instead. The 2 extra defense comes in handy given the lower protection of the plate cuirass. The black steel hammer and shield unit should be given glaives instead. Alternatively, change it to a cavalry unit. Ulm can do with a cheaper and lighter cavalry unit for flanking and chasing down retreating enemies. Suggest one with same equipment and resource cost as a knight, the basic stat of Ulm infantry, and cost 40G.

Mauls are inferior to greatswords (or battleaxes) in every way and are therefore redundant. The resource saving is meaningless for Ulm. Suggest giving them ambidextrous 2 and 2 hammers instead.

The infantry of Ulm morning star and shield unit can stay as is (my favourite standard Ulm unit), but the black steel infantry should be given ambidextrous 2, Morningstar, and dagger instead.

The weapons of the pike units can stay as it.

The black knight unit is a problem. Its low defense (easily hit by an opponent’s lance) and 2 less action points makes it inferior to, say, Man’s cheaper knights in many respects. I would favour the Black Knight getting a black steel morningstar that has +1 attack (+2 in total) and +2 damage (+8 in total) for the cost of 5 extra resources. Also give it 18 damage to compensate for its 2 less action points so that its lance is as potent as other cavalry.

The sapper should have their crossbows replaced by bombs (range=strength, precision=minus 2, ammo=5, 10AP area one physical damage, and attacks every other turn). This is more in line with the theme of a sapper and gives Ulm more variety to its missile attacks.

Finally, the guardian should be given a new weapon, black steel halberd. This would have the same stat as the original halberd but does 2 extra damage and cost 5 extra resource.

As to the commanders, no need to have 2 chain mail and two black steel commanders with similar weapons. Suggest having one with identical equipment as the new crossbowman, one with identical equipment as the heavy crossbowman (arbalest), one broadsword, shield, and full chainmail, and one ambidextrous 2 with 2 hammers and full plate of Ulm. The engineer should be equipped with crossbows, and the Lord Guardian black steel halberd. This should give the Ulm player far more choices to suit different situations.

I deliberately leave Ulm weak against many of its traditional counters (AP and AN attacks, ethereal, etc.) to retain the original flavor of the nation. However, with my suggested changes the Ulm player can narrow down its problems and concentrate on those.

The above are just my personal view. Any comments or criticism are welcome.
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