Dark Knight

[Xietor]

As for decoys, that is not an exploit. When a tactic is listed in the strategy guide that you buy with the game, you are assured that that conduct is not an exploit.

[quantum_mechani]

Cris: It usually works on default order archers too.

Xietor: I doubt if IW did more than skim most the strategy entries in the manual. And archer decoying was in fact a known issue that there were attempts to resolve.

[Ironhawk]

Xietor said:
As for decoys, that is not an exploit. When a tactic is listed in the strategy guide that you buy with the game, you are assured that that conduct is not an exploit.

This comment is completely at odds with my experience in the beta test. IMO, archer decoying is an exploit of the targetting AI. That fact is brought even more to bear by the efforts of the devs to remove it. Its just so commonly used that no one wants to paste the "exploit" label on it, unlike the situation of the bogus orders.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Does archer decoying still work if you have fire none orders, or does it only work when you're set to fire closest?

[Saint_Dude]

What about exploits that are unobservable on the battlefield?

Specifically, I am thinking about using Telestic Animates to reanimate undead. But I am sure there are others.

[Tuidjy]

As far as I am concerned, the game host can stipulate any house rules he wishes
before the game has started. It's the players choice to join after all. Once the
game is on, and players have invested some time in it, it is too late to forbid
anything that is not a clear abuse of a bug. I think that setting decoys for
archers is just fine. So is scripting Bogus to attack commanders. Copying his
orders looks fishy to me, but I would not vote to exclude it, even if I weren't
the one who usually ends being visited by him and his friends.

[quantum_mechani]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
Does archer decoying still work if you have fire none orders, or does it only work when you're set to fire closest?

It works with no order archers too.

[jutetrea]

I think items like re-animating dead with a statue are just a flavor of whatever nation gets that ability. I might summon priestly "goody" statues, they summon nasty dark zombie creating statues. Shrug.

IMO things like bogus's band of merry men are something that can happen to anyone. Capture and atainment of any of the units is a spoil of war, a specific bonus to those with the right paths (or that spend the effort to get into those paths, any nation has at least the potential), blood/nature only? Enslave mind/GoR work? Seduction? Using the associated orders are again a spoil of war, as K.O. said, kind of like new training as a reward. And its not really easy.

Fire mages isn't that powerful, nice if it works, but not more powerful then the right spell. Attack commander is a bit different, there are so many weak mages/ferries sitting in the back that the payoff could be significant. I'm still thinking that payoff should only be significant once, then its just another aspect to deal with like various nasty battle spell capability or a nasty SC/item combo.

Again, IMO - the archer decoy is actually the worst of the bunch as it takes advantage of something the player has the least control over - AI. Yes there are methods of dealing with it (changing orders being the easiest), but it can have significant initial impact as well.

I also find it ironic that some can declaim something as inherently exploitable when so much of the game is exploitable. I think soul drain/master enslave is exploitable - what are you really going to do against it? Darkness? Has a counter..but pretty nasty for a reasonably common enchant. Arrow fend against my archer army? Nothing I can do. Storm against my flyers, etc, etc... there are tons of things that can be considered exploits in specific situations - you can do something I can't counter or that the developers didn't anticipate. That's my definition of an exploit...and I'm assuming there are plenty of definitions. One of the reasons I find the game both fantastic and occasionally frustrating. So many things to do, nasty combos and such... but still enough freedom to TRY to find an answer.

[Xietor]

"Using the associated orders are again a spoil of war, as K.O. said, kind of like new training as a reward. And its not really easy."

Fortunately Ko's opinion trumps all. The issue is settled. Move along citizens.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Well, juterea, I haven't done a thorough survey of reanimation, but here's my experiences with ea ctis and Yomi. I've come to the conclusion that reanimation is tied directly to whether a unit is undead or demon.

Yomi - Demon Priest (human): No
Yomi - Oni General (demon, h0+3) Prophet: Yes
Yomi - Dai Oni (demon, h1): yes
Yomi - Hannya (hannya, h0+3) Prophet: yes
Yomi - Telsestic Animate (astral summon h2): no
Ctis - High Priest: No
Ctis - Undead Lizard Chariot hero: yes
Ctis - Bane Lord (undead) Prophet: Yes.