Some things

Gryphin · #1 March 12th, 2002, 02:37 AM

EvilKnight,
I don't think we missed your point. I also don't think Space Empire players fit the "norm" as seen in a survey about what computer game players want. There is a thread, "How Old are You" that showes most of the people who posted to that thread started as people who played board games and miniatures. Graphics is not a high point in "cardbord" games. Qualty of play is very high. There are a couple of threads about what people would like to see in Space Empires. I don't recall seeing graphics mentioned.

Another aspect of graphics in this game. People like / want to create their own graphics.
Indeed, The graphics for Squad leader were byproducts of the graphics created by people who "modded" PanzerBlitz and Panzer Leader. Those are cardboard games by Avalon Hill.

I discovered SEIII when a friend mentioned it. I would not be surprised if word of mouth or an Online review is how most if not all people find out aobut Space Empires. I expect that the demo is what sells the game at that point. There is a another thread I belive started by Richard within the Last two weeks that among other things explains why this game is not available retail. In short, retail has been the death of many a good game company and their games.

As for the graphics in older computer games, please see my post about Empire Deluxe.

Overall, I do see your point. I do follow your arguments. They are well put within the context you mention. Even as you qualify your points , you define by not describing what I have seen in most of the people who play Space Empires.

I don't know if this helps.
Anybody think I'm off base here? I've an open mind and would like feedback. Also, Does anyone have the links to the threads I mentioned?
Thanks

wr8th · #2 March 11th, 2002, 06:38 PM

I'll have to agree with Gryphin. I was drawn to purchase SE4G based on a couple of Online reviews that lauded the gameplay. Knowing that the graphics and sound left something to be desired, as long as the (re)playability and "just one more turn"-ability was there, I'd part with $40+s/h. For those reasons, I'd still play Master of Magic, even though the graphics are now dated. Eye candy is nice, but it's worthless without a sound game design behind it.

Gryphin... PanzerBlitz and Panzer Leader... EastfrontII and Westfront, as their respective inheritors. I still have the beat up boxes the former came in in a closet somewhere. I might even have some old SPI games like Terrible Swift Sword.

Gryphin · #3 March 11th, 2002, 07:01 PM

wr8th ,
I modded most of my Panzer Blitz / Panzer Leader Boards with photo copies of war ruined cities.

My favorite SPI game was "Invasion America" that I played against a few of my Dorm mates from Europe and South Ammerica. What a bLast!
BTW: I think we are showing our age, I'm 47. Then again our age may be part of the equation. As we grow we learn that "beauty is skin deep". Without a solid core of value/s the relationship is not going to Last. (to over extend a metaphore).

wr8th · #4 March 11th, 2002, 07:15 PM

Wow... I remember IA!... barely. I added additional rules for production since it was too simplistic. Third Reich was another goodie as was Squad Leader and it's precursor, Sniper.

Yes our age is showing... I just started my fourth decade.

My son (who is 7) will probably have to fight me for the computer (he's currently addicted to AoE2) when SE4G arrives. I put out the Micro Machines models of the ST ships to entice him.

Yes, I am sadistic.

Gurduloo · #5 March 11th, 2002, 07:21 PM

I think one thing that people are forgetting is that SEIV is not directed at the mainstream retail market. It's very much a niche product and MM very wisely kept production costs down by not hiring a small army of professional artists and animators. If they had tried to increase the game's appeal with snazzier graphics, it would not have resulted in enough extra sales to justify the added expense, since a turn based 4X game has only so many potential buyers. It would be interesting to compare the profitability of SEIV vs. a larger production game like MOO3.

oleg · #6 March 11th, 2002, 08:24 PM

I am still waiting for SeIV Gold to arrive and in the meantime I've wasted Last weekend playing Master of Magic. What a truly briliant game and who cares about the outdated graphics !
I regard Steve Barcia as a more inventive game designer than even Sid Mayer.

wr8th · #7 March 11th, 2002, 08:44 PM

Originally I had been waiting for Stars Supernova to come out, having read previews. That's been more than a year with no real updates. In fact, they still don't have a publisher, WTH! When I saw the review on SE4 in December, I came to this website only to find that it was out of print with SE4G due out in a couple months.

Since it's enroute and I have Friday off, I guess I'll be vegging that day.