Unkillable aircraft!!!

[Mobhack]

This game is based on a "spotted" flag for each item on map. Always has been since it came out. If one thing spots something, all in LOS spot it.

The alternative would need an array of [max units] bytes added to every units data and more complex code - but you as the "player God" would still be able to call arty on things in the rear that the spotter had no knowledge of. (That is the reason e.g. for the arty calling rules in the WRG tabletop rules, that limit impromptu arty fires to within 500m of a spotted enemy unit, or of a terrain feature your troops are advancing towards to pass within 500metres and are within 100m of etc)

The sorts of games where Bill knows about Hanz, but Eric and Fred don't (not until he communicates the knowledge to them "hes over there"! - "Not Seen" "3 o'clock from the small bush, 10 metres" - "Not seen!" - "watch my tracer" - "Seen!") only works in skirmish type games with very few units. And I have only seen such implemented in tabletop games, if at all. (There may be multiple-player shooter type computer section-level games where each player plays one man where this happens? - an ideal genre for such anyway).

All other computer games use a "spotted/unspotted" binary state, as do bored games and tabletop games usually have the tropps on table (bar ambushes marked on a map), though some tabletop games used paper chits, some of which would be dummys.


Cheers
Andy

[chuckfourth]

Hi Mobhack
very interesting
Not sure you have to go to all that trouble though, the Level bombers dont seem to spot much do they? maybe the air strikes could be given the same spotting ability as the level bombers? ie close to 0. Seems to me spotting ability can vary with class? ie spotting ability is maybe a variable?
Best Regards Chuck.

[Mobhack]

Bombers do not spot much - since they are way up high.

Planes spot, since they are down in the weeds, and need the ability to actually find targets..

Andy

[Deputy]

Well I have no problems eating crow, and in this case I will do so gladly . After more testing and game experience, I agree that the planes aren't carrying "death ray bombs and rockets". I apologize for making that idiotic statement. I think what happened was I had all the Preference setting set at maximum for the US, and when I played a scenario where the US was player two, I got clobbered.

I do have 2 questions concerning hiding from air power and spotting planes.
1. Spotting planes... If I have my units in trees, do spotting planes still "see" them all the time?

2.Is it even worth pulling off a road and hiding in trees to defend against air attacks? Or does any overhead plane "automatically" see every unit below them?

[Mobhack]

If you are hidden amongst blocking terrain, you may only get a strafing area attack.

Cheers
Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

As Mobhack said, go make few tests and you'll see that on good visibility in the open, the planes do target individual units (accompanied by text messages), but when the visibility is bad or the units are in cover (trees, city etc.) the planes are just attacking hex in hope the FO that called them in that sector did call them on correct target and that there really is something worth strafing down there.

[DRG]

Deputy said:

I do have 2 questions concerning hiding from air power and spotting planes.
1. Spotting planes... If I have my units in trees, do spotting planes still "see" them all the time?

2.Is it even worth pulling off a road and hiding in trees to defend against air attacks? Or does any overhead plane "automatically" see every unit below them?

It's very simple and better to test this yourself. Set up a test game where both sides are human, ignore the requests for passwords but you will have to save the game in a save slot. Set up player two with some units in the open as a test but set up others in the best concealment you can find then set up player ones spotting aircraft and airstrikes based on what you already know about P2's disposition ( attack areas with AND without enemy units ) then watch what is revelled when the airstrikes come in so use as big a map as possible so none of P1's ground units can see any of P2's units. When the air attack is over and the game goes to P2 you can check what you saw during the attacks against what the actual dispositions were then end P2's turn and recheck what P1 can now see then run the test a half dozen more times with different visibility and see the results.

Don

[PanzerBob]

Freakin' JABO’s certainly are a pain, as they should be, but accept for bad tactical moves, such as bunching up units too much I've never had anymore problems than to be expected. The only thing that gets me is when the Enemy decides to call in several Sqdns of CAS. They can certainly suppress the hell out of a lot of units. However C'est l'guerre.

LAW’s in the game are nasty up close when they work, that is why infantry support is essential. Remember your vehicle is in a 50m hex so a frontal hit could be just as easy a track or vision slit. If I lose a panzer to a bazooka team I’d be hard pressed to counter it by moving another panzer in to counter it. Infantry or suppressing fire with arty or MG’s makes more sense.

Note to Chuck if your spotter planes are doing 500mph no wonder they can't spot anything!


Love this game, Prosit!

[Marek_Tucan]

PanzerBob said:
Infantry or suppressing fire with arty or MG’s makes more sense.

Second that. Especially useful for suppression is "Z-fire", IE blind area fire into a given hex. works well even if you don't have a direct LOS (say blocked by smoke or by wreck), if you mass enough units to that task - MMG/HMG units are good at it, ESPECIALLY those with three weapons

[chuckfourth]

Hi Panzerbob
I am talking about fighter bombers flying at 500mph not spotter planes.
Spotter planes have a different problem, their photographs have to be returned to HQ developed made into maps etc, so spotter planes IMHO dont really belong in the game. I dont mean airiel FOs, which I believe the game doesnt have because of playbalance issues. The same reason I dont like the fighter bomber spotting ability.
Best Regards Chuck.