EA Oceania - Knight of the deep too good?

[Loren]

Graeme Dice said:

Unless I'm mistaken and they've been removed since Dom 2, amulets of the fish allow aquatic creatures to go on land.

Commanders, not troops.

[BigandScary]

The diference between the barrel of air and barrel of water is why these fishies can't leave the water. The humans with the barrel of air simply need something to breath, but many of the aquatic-only troops have fish tails and such that makes them immobile on land. The Amulet of Fish shouldn't even work on these guys, since they need a way to move on land, not just to breath.

on that note, what does a Knight of the Deeps leader look like on land?

[thejeff]

He looks the same. In theory the Amulet of the Fish turns the air around them into water, allowing them to swim. Thinking about that too deeply raises all sorts of problems.

It would make far more sense to just claim it allows them to swim in air as well as breath it.

[Haruhi_Suzumiya]

well...

im R'lyeh in that game konming talking about...

im defeated in the 24th turn ...

how can u beat Oceania?

Oceania's dom designs:
o3p2c3g2m3d2
dom str:7
god designs:
Sacred Statue
w9s9,imprisoned

btw: research is difficulty

[Sombre]

I don't think you can explain a logical difference between barrel of air and a theoretical 'barrel of water' style item, because barrel of air already defies logic. How does a magic air barrel allow a bunch of fully armoured mounted knights to charge around underwater as if they were on land?

Because it's magic, of course.

Similarly a 'barrel of water' item would work because it's /magic/. Simple as that. It allows underwater stuff to act as if they're in water when they aren't, breathing and moving as normal.

It's an item I'd like to see in the game and unless it was seriously undercosted (not an issue with 90% of items in basegame) it shouldn't mess with balance too much.

[thejeff]

You could also have it grant the equivalent of "poor amphibian", but in reverse. The unit is at a penalty out of the water.

[cleveland]

Haruhi_Suzumiya said:

how can u beat Oceania?

Haven't tested this extensively, but an ice elemental approach could be an effective defense against the initial rush.

Strategy is simple: take Cold-3 with high dominion and access Conj-5 as quickly as possible. With Magic-3, you can open it on turn 14 with 1 Slave Mage/turn; with Magic-1, you can open it on turn 13 with 1 Mind Lord/turn.

Recruit Lobo Guards & the Net-wielding Mermen at a 3:1 ratio. When the rush comes, assign to your mages in mixed squads, form a line in the back row (with gaps in between!), Hold & Attack closest.

Put your mages in the gaps with 3 water gems each. Script (Summon Water Power)(Summon Water Elemental)(Summon Water Elemental) Spells.

Since you took cold scales, your water elementals will be ice elementals: high-protection trampling thugs. They've also got a cold aura, decreasing enemy defense.

The lances of the KoDs will be absorbed by the lobos. The mermen will intermittently entangle them, muting their effectiveness. Your chaff will keep the elementals from being overwhelmed, and shouldn't rout too quickly, as the lobos have morale=50.

It's a reasonable strategy that certainly doesn't cripple Rlyeh. It actually synergizes with them: underwater, so lots of water gems and no penalties for cold scales; no production scale needed; conjuration school, so voice of tiamet will keep the front lines stocked with water gems.

It's not offensively viable, but it should hurt Oceania enough to make him think twice about pressing the attack. You then have some breathing room to dive into thaumaturgy for mind burn --> paralyze --> soul slay --> enslave mind, all of which will be relatively successful thanks to the penetration bonuses of your high magic scale & Light of the Northern Star.

Thoughts?

[Baalz]

Don't forget to, EA Oceana has some real difficulty getting astral mages so mind hunting should be a field day if you can last that long. Not only do none of thier nationals have astral, as far as I know none of the underwater indies have it either. Outside of thier pretender...I guess they could give waterbreathing rings to lizard shamen if they managed to get out of the water at all...

[atul]

You really did wait your while to tell that tidbit, didn't you? ;p

After initial rush, Oceania doesn't have that many things going for it. Magic-wise, against Atlantis, hm, guess only nature. Against astral. Yay. But it sure takes a while to get there.

[Loren]

Baalz said:
Don't forget to, EA Oceana has some real difficulty getting astral mages so mind hunting should be a field day if you can last that long. Not only do none of thier nationals have astral, as far as I know none of the underwater indies have it either. Outside of thier pretender...I guess they could give waterbreathing rings to lizard shamen if they managed to get out of the water at all...

Yeah, I'm taking a second crack at EA Oceania against the AI's, this time against a pack of impossibles. At this point I have one astral mage--by empowerment from clams.