US Sniper rifle???

[Marek_Tucan]

On different variants though, on different engines. With different strengths and weaknesses. Some people like WaW more, some (me included) MBT/WW2.
Judging from the history of MBT/WW2 development, both developpers are open to suggestions or critics - as long as it's not based on blanket statements and is supported by evidence. Some suggestions make it to the game engine or OOBs, some not, as it's impossible to please everyone. And if you don't like the way OOB's are set, you are provided with all you need to modify them and try out how does the change affect the "simulation".
I can tell you from personal experience that slight differences in ranges or accuracies of sniper rifles don't play much role unless you want to try to harass enemy at max range. And then usually the sniper falls prey to mortars after his few minutes of glory.

[Mobhack]

The best direct-fire anti-sniper bullet weapon in the game is another sniper. (Not a section with a sniper rifle in slot 4 ). Snipers enjoy no special advantages vs another specialist sniper, bar small size making initial hitting a tad less than a full sized section.

Next best is an MG unit class weapon, esp if firing from beyond the snipers own rifle range. MG unit classes have a few less problems with the snipers size, and if they miss, usually it is to the adjacent hex, so the splash will cause some "S" anyway (and share the joy with any neighbours he has, too! ).

Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

True about counter-sniper-snipers and MG's. However a little mortar barrage comes in hady anytime

[Charles22]

Mobhack said:
The best direct-fire anti-sniper bullet weapon in the game is another sniper. (Not a section with a sniper rifle in slot 4 ). Snipers enjoy no special advantages vs another specialist sniper, bar small size making initial hitting a tad less than a full sized section.

Next best is an MG unit class weapon, esp if firing from beyond the snipers own rifle range. MG unit classes have a few less problems with the snipers size, and if they miss, usually it is to the adjacent hex, so the splash will cause some "S" anyway (and share the joy with any neighbours he has, too! ).

Andy

What's the difference with the srifle in slot 4? I think there is a experience or morale check that is made for it to fire, which in slot 1 wouldn't be the case, but what else? I was wondering how well that works for the 10 man, or maybe it's 12 man brandenberger unit.

[Mobhack]

It is because this game is based on unit class mainly. There are very few real weapon classes (no WC_SMG, WC_PISTOL - just WT_PRIME_INF, WT_FLAME etc. In order to figure out if say an SMG is fired when deep in the guts of the code, you need to look at range, HE kill and so on, and figure it out from these data..)

A sniper rifle given to an ordinary rifle squad is different from a sniper with sniper rifle - the sniper unit class has a few privileges (if it is size 0!), when being shot at in cover beyond a couple of hexes, as well as its being size 0. But when a sniper unit class is sniping another sniper unit class - the target one does not get the sniper benefits (especially in cover etc). A squad with an added marksman's rifle will not have this. Thst is why sniper points are extra in the points calculator, for the extra built-in difficulties in killing them, if in cover, from direct-fire HE. (In area fire, they are just a regular size 0 squad).

An MMG given to a rifle unit, does not get the same benefits as one in a proper MG unit class, either (splash effects, a little extra ability on units in cover when firing direct fire, some lessening of a targeted sniper unit class if in cover ditto).

So - for snipers, in direct HE bullet fire, try to counter-snipe with a sniper of your own, or hose them down with an MMG section. Better yet, drop a shed load of mortars on them once located (even roughly).

They are also very vulnerable to close combat - so if you can close to 1 hex or 0 hex melee, they are toast.

Cheers
Andy

[Charles22]

Thanks. Yes I found the brandenburgers were 12 men. I don't intend to use sniper rifle equipped brandenburgers anytime soon, but their survivability makes their disadvantages in trying sniper fire considerably less meaningful. Even if the enemy isn't annoyed by them sniping, if they are seen alongside a bunch of other army units, then they will likely be targeted more simply because they cost more than the others.

I can't remember what the rating is called that the sniper can get a 10 rating for. Seems it was some form of fire control. The brandenburgers probably have a 2 rating in that department at best, but they do have excellent experience to slightly offset that. They're probably about 10pts higher in experience than the german regular wehrmacht sniper.

[chuckfourth]

Just when you thought it was safe. Please accept my humblest apologies for any ulcers that may begin hurting.
This is not a battalion level game. If it was, the smallest unit you could buy would be a battalion. Its a squad level game. As such the detail discussed by Deputy isnt beyond the scope of the game.
Note that in the game the American Thompson and M3 SMGs get an extra HE kill point (no its not micro modeleing its a great idea) merely because there calibre is larger, If this level of detail is worth incorporating then I think that doing the same for sniper rifles is also acceptable.
Clearly there is no reason not to change the generic sniper weapon and give it national flavour, other than lack of interest.
Remember this from the game guide,
"Grenades, rifle-grenades, infantry bombs, anti-tank grenades, infantry anti-tank mines and other anti-tank explosive devices have been extensively researched and have replaced the generic representations in most instances"
Oh and of course if your country didnt really have snipers then obviously someone would have found some scopes in the back of the trench and made sure that they got to those country bumpkins that were actually crack shots.
I have to agree with MajorDisaster in that If an infantry squad can't take out an identified sniper in short order I also think there's something wrong.

I often buy just an infantry battalion or even just a coy, and in that context this sort of detail becomes very important. Im sure Im not the only person who plays 'small' games.
Now Im not saying that snipers should be revised Im just saying that Deputy I think has a valid point.
But... If (and I dont know) the USA (or anyone else) had no sniper rifles pre 43 then I think they should be removed pre 43, Generic or not.
The play balance issue is of course that if the Germans and Russians? were the only countries to have "lots" of snipers then making snipers generic 'masks' this difference or 'advantage'
Im sure the designers are frying bigger fish anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Actually Id prefer it if you went away Brumbar.
Best Regards Chuck.

[Charles22]

quote: Clearly there is no reason not to change the generic sniper weapon and give it national flavour, other than lack of interest.

Ah yes, but you didn't think beyond one of the statements made earlier, which wouldn't take much effort, and at the same time your last conclusion in the quote is correct. Thinking beyond as earlier statement means when we were told of the 250 unit limit. Even if there is room in every army to have highly specialized snipers, and many of them have already 4 or 5 just for different fire control ratings, is it worth it when you consider you have just crippled any possible future additions in so doing?

So yeah, lack of interest plays into that, because as I said earlier, I would rather have more variants of the same tank, than 10-15 snipers in every army. The fact that every army has at least 4-5 different ones is far more than enough. The only problem with that is that the slots are better spent in some other way. If one would insist on them staying as snipers, than it might be a better thing to not have generic rifles for them, but less options for fire control, such that the same amount of slots are used.

In any case, the current sniper setup is just about the same thing, because you have so many different units for each level of fire control, you might as well be saying they each have either better rifles, or better scopes, or both.