Balance opinions

quantum_mechani · #1 December 14th, 2007, 09:09 PM

This was actually another issue I had in mind with the poll, that I should have separated out from the better documentation option. Or perhaps it is a better fit with 'specific issues' since I get the feeling that most people with this opinion have tried it, found a particular strategy that is made more difficult by CB, and then become intimidated by the list of other changes. The way CB should work, however, is that anything viable base game should still work, with any additional strategies made viable being tried out at one's leisure. A few changes (such as the one to dwarven hammers), have perhaps gotten away from this and that is the sort of thing I am looking to polish.

djo · #2 December 14th, 2007, 09:14 PM

I chose "...too much hassle" for the reasons given above: too many changes to absorb. I'm not worried about most of them; I don't mind the minor changes, and I like the boosts that encourage variety (eg, I like being able to use the drakes).

What gets me are the dozen or so "gotcha's", like when you forget that a key path booster has jumped a level and you can't reach it anymore. Or when a key unit is changed enough to be strategy-changing. They come up very infrequently, but they are frustrating when they do.

I would also like better documentation, but the current docs aren't too bad.

quantum_mechani · #3 December 14th, 2007, 09:24 PM

That sounds like the specific changes sort of issues. I think I will likely do a follow up thread to pinpoint those issues better, I already am aware of several like hammers, boosters (those changes were actually already removed in a previous version), and indy commanders.

djo · #4 December 14th, 2007, 09:50 PM

I should add as a follow-up that one reason I find these changes hard to assimilate is that I just don't play that many games. I am usually in 1-2 MP games and 0-1 SP games at any given time. Not a lot of time to get familiar with vanilla, never mind big mods.

That said, the smaller, more easily digested chunks of CB (scales, pretenders), I do like. I am a big fan of variety, and I fully support the goal of making all the choices more useful.

Jazzepi · #5 December 14th, 2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

djo said:
I chose "...too much hassle" for the reasons given above: too many changes to absorb. I'm not worried about most of them; I don't mind the minor changes, and I like the boosts that encourage variety (eg, I like being able to use the drakes).

What gets me are the dozen or so "gotcha's", like when you forget that a key path booster has jumped a level and you can't reach it anymore. Or when a key unit is changed enough to be strategy-changing. They come up very infrequently, but they are frustrating when they do.

I would also like better documentation, but the current docs aren't too bad.

I got hammered by the fact in CB that the normal recruitable commanders, the guys with the sword pointed upwards in one hand, are in fact, mapmove 1. This just hosed me one game when I was relying on them to move a bunch of guys. I was going through rough territory first, and I didn't realize it until I got into an area with some plains.

I do like a lot of the changes from casual observation, as we used CB mod in one game I played in, and I got rushed by a nation of demons and I was able to build several of those demon killing chimes. Which made /way/ more sense than the chimes being level 8 construction.

Jazzepi

K · #6 December 14th, 2007, 10:37 PM

Considering that the learning curve for Dom is measured in years, and any "unbalanced" thing is basically available to anyone, CB mods are a waste of time.

I find that CB mods are for tinkerers who find that their play style is not a winning style, and they want to change the game to fit themselves rather than learn to adapt.

quantum_mechani · #7 December 14th, 2007, 11:19 PM

The argument goes both ways. In a similarly inflammatory spirit, it could be said people who have found a simple set of strategies that effectively deal with almost any situation in the base game are too lazy to learn to adapt to more options.

It also seems that as far as I can tell, few CB supporters are new players, but rather Dom2 veterans that have in fact tried most the options dominions has to offer.

DigitalSin · #8 December 15th, 2007, 12:09 AM

I played a bit of Dom2, then got Dom3, and thats when I actually started to learn. I find that the balance mod is really quite useful in balancing everything, and is most likely what got me into the magic system of Dominions. So I say keep going and balance 3.10, you aren't hurting people who dont want it, just helping people who do.

Kuritza · #9 December 19th, 2007, 07:28 AM

I chose 'but conceptual balance mods makes specific changes that outweigh any improvements'. I believe we had a talk at Mirc about magic crafting changes - making boosters more expensive and thus only available to certain nations reduces diversification possibilities, which is a bad thing. Not only does it mean that many nations are stuck with semi-useless astral 2, less strategic options means less fun. And buffs to the least used spells etc dont compensate for that loss, no way.
Which is a shame, for I liked some of your changes. Jaguar warriors being more expensive, for example.

KissBlade · #10 December 15th, 2007, 01:52 AM

Quote:

K said:
Considering that the learning curve for Dom is measured in years, and any "unbalanced" thing is basically available to anyone, CB mods are a waste of time.

I find that CB mods are for tinkerers who find that their play style is not a winning style, and they want to change the game to fit themselves rather than learn to adapt.

Quite the opposite actually. Most people who play with cb mods are just simply tired of abusing the crap out of the game and eager to see some variety.

On that note, qm, you know my opinion on old chinese wizards. =P