Withdraw

[Cross]

I understand we can withdraw units ourselves during our own move turn, but I was specifically addressing an opportunity to gain more control of units during your opponents turn.

I can watch the replay of one of my units taking fire again and again, and if I could, I would have moved them back (withdraw) rather than stay and take casualties.

There are a few computer wargames out there where you can choose the 'stance' of your units, or how tenacious they should be even when taking casualties.

My idea is a way that the commander can issue orders like: 'If you make contact and get fired upon, move back'. Opposed to: 'If you take fire, hold the ground at all costs'.

Does this make sense?

Cheers,
Cross

[evan]

It makes sense and I agree with your point that units sometimes take more fire and casulties than you would like before fleeing.

I suspect that pinned means exactly that, the unit is pinned and likely to take fire going foreward or retreating.

The other issue around this is smoke dischargers on tanks. One good hit and the Polish and British tanks I've being dealing with disappear in a smoke screen. My german tanks don't seem to do the same thing. So is this historic or a programming matter? Did the Germans have and use smoke dischargers/ grenades and at what stage of the war if at all?

(Sorry if this is too much of a diversion but....)
Evan

[Charles22]

Some vehicles have them, and others do not. Whether every nation behaves the same way when they do have them I don't know.

[Marek_Tucan]

Every nation treats smoke dischargers the same way, but AFAIK Germans used frag grenades for close-in defense rather than smoke shells in their discharger-like apparatus (that terrible abbreviation on late-war tanks).

Brits did use external smoke dischargers and late tanks had AFAIK internal 2in mortar for smoke laying.

[chuckfourth]

Hi Cross
I cant see it happening myself it is probably a lot of work, but I would say that setting the infantry unit to pop smoke if fired at may be a little easier as a similar function already appears for vehicles with smoke dischargers.
Best Regards Chuck.

[Cross]

Hi Evan,

From a realism/consistancy point of view, I think if Pinned units can Take Cover or Retreat then why not Withdraw?

AFAIK Retreating units are more vulnerable to being spotted and to damage.
Withdraw would be a more tactical retreat where they'd be more hidden (like when units Take Cover) as they step back a hex, and still be able to fire back (opportunity fire) if shot at.

As for Smoke dischargers, the Germans certainly have them and use them. I think the Lynx (PzII) some of the Pz III's and IV's have at least one smoke discharger shot, the Panther has 1 or 2. You can check specific units in the Encyclopedia or unit info for smoke ammo.

Chuck brings up a good point that infantry could pop smoke. This is not what I had in mind, but it would be nice to have the option to turn that on or off for infantry. Not sure I'd like infantry to pop smoke just because they were shot at though.

cheers
Cross

[pdoktar]

Sometimes if infatry retreat under fire to the next hex, they will pop smoke, if they have smoke grenades left.

[Cross]

Yes, but only after taking damage, and their retreat is because they have too high supression. So they are usually rendered ineffective at this point, unless you can rally what's left of them.

I'd like some units to Withdraw from fire, to avoid casualties and maintain low supression.

[chuckfourth]

Hi Podoktar
The smoke they pop seems to be the "battlefield" smoke which is very often see through anyway and I think is available even if they dont have smake grenades. Maybe its created by the weapon firing at them beating up some dust etc?
Best regards Chuck

[PanzerBob]

I see what you saying now, Cross, it would useful for defense scenarios to withdraw to secondary defensive lines. But I think Chuck is right that it won't happen in this incarnation of the game.