Halt Heretic - Opinions

[Dedas]

I'm quite satisfied with the infantry as it is. Everyone have their niches more or less depending on what nation you are currently fighting.

[Edi]

Probably. My perspective is NOT from multiplayer, so I defer to the judgment of more experienced people in that regard. The black steel helmets would be thematically cool, though.

[Dedas]

I cannot agree with you more. Black steel helmets should be there.

[B0rsuk]

Black steel Helmets sound like a no-brainer. Ulm is all about black steel, right ? Why do they use those crappy regular -1 def full helmets ?

[Sir_Dr_D]

I agree with these latest statements.

Though I now beleive that black plate infantry is now quite a good unit, ulm still should have medium infantry with map move 2.

[Don_Seba]

Ok, I must be missing something. I do not like Tuidjy's way of lobbying for even more Ulm goodies by disparaging what they just received, but I do not understand why the rest of you are looking for ways of preventing Ulm's troops from shining.

> they would not be such an obvious choice all around

> would really start to hurt them against archers and especially crossbowmen.

> their survivability would go down a lot and their defense woul still stay in the average range

Ulm have forsaken magic. They worship physical strength and masterfully crafted equipment. Why on earth should they not have really good, properly equipped troops?

We are not talking about giving them some out of this world items. We are not even talking about letting them have some infantry with 11s in their stats, although I would not be surprised if Ulm is the only nation that does not have build anywhere veteran infantry.

Tuidjy was just mixing and minimaxing existing equipment. How [censored] dumb are the Ulmish? I guess they hold meetings in which they try to maximize their weaknesses. Right in between 'most cumbersome armor' and 'weakest will' contest, they spend some time choosing weapons that best fail to synegize with their armor.

[Endoperez]

Don_Seba said:
Tuidjy was just mixing and minimaxing existing equipment. How [censored] dumb are the Ulmish? I guess they hold meetings in which they try to maximize their weaknesses. Right in between 'most cumbersome armor' and 'weakest will' contest, they spend some time choosing weapons that best fail to synegize with their armor.

Actually, the price for dumbest choice of equipment would go for Agarthans. Poor attack and defense, above-average hp and strength, size 3 or bigger makes swarming harder. Clearly high-precision or high-damage weapons are needed, or weapon with multiple attacks. Good shields combined with high hp and units spread over larger area would help a lot against archers. So what's their weapon of choice? Spear and buckler. Surely their giant brethren have something nice, like Great Clubs or Battleaxes? Nope, spears and bucklers. What about their elites? Glaives, for that wonderful malus to both attack and defense.

[Edi]

Don_Seba said:
Ok, I must be missing something. I do not like Tuidjy's way of lobbying for even more Ulm goodies by disparaging what they just received, but I do not understand why the rest of you are looking for ways of preventing Ulm's troops from shining.

> they would not be such an obvious choice all around

> would really start to hurt them against archers and especially crossbowmen.

> their survivability would go down a lot and their defense woul still stay in the average range

Ulm have forsaken magic. They worship physical strength and masterfully crafted equipment. Why on earth should they not have really good, properly equipped troops?

We are not talking about giving them some out of this world items. We are not even talking about letting them have some infantry with 11s in their stats, although I would not be surprised if Ulm is the only nation that does not have build anywhere veteran infantry.

Tuidjy was just mixing and minimaxing existing equipment. How [censored] dumb are the Ulmish? I guess they hold meetings in which they try to maximize their weaknesses. Right in between 'most cumbersome armor' and 'weakest will' contest, they spend some time choosing weapons that best fail to synegize with their armor.

I did some minmaxing of my own, which is why I do not advocate giving them too well equipped mapmove 2 medium infantry. Plate Cuirass, half helmet and shield is going to be just a couple of prot points less than the chainmail infantry. AND will have better defense AND better mapmove. So which ones were you building again when the chainmail infantry is obsolete?

Better mapmove gives far more tactical and strategic flexibility, which will in the end be so much more important than the higher protection of black plate infantry that the only units anyone will ever build are the medium infantry if they are available.

You can see the same thing in action with EA Ulm, the only actual units worth building with that nation are warrior maidens, steel maidens and shield maidens with iron warriors for heavy hitting built near the front. The other normal warrior units simply suck that much the way they currently are. That is why if you want to keep the MA Ulm heavy units viable, shields are out for medium infantry. Not because it is perfectly logical, but to prevent the nation thematics from being irretrievably broken.

I would not mind black plate infantry having +1 str, att & def compared to the regular infantry, however.

[Saulot]

Don_Seba said:
Right in between 'most cumbersome armor' and 'weakest will' contest, they spend some time choosing weapons that best fail to synegize with their armor.

The crowd cheers as the armor contest comes to a close with a three-way tie, and the smiths grinning with their shiny lead medals.

Ulmish Mayor speaking to the gathered crowd, "And now it's time for a favorite amongst the lads, the annual 'Weakest Will' competition!"

The crowd cheers.

The mayor continues, "Alright, are the competitors ready? (he pauses) Ready, set, go!"

One contestant immediately belts out, "I give up!"

The mayor replies, "We have a winner!"

The crowd cheers.