Vanilla Summon Costs

Gregstrom · #1 March 10th, 2008, 05:33 PM

I too think gentle tweaks would be of value. A bit of a boost to summon numbers or stats, or adding scaling per path level in the right place, would add a lot to some spells. Work like that done to the 'Sleeping in...' spells, adding some scale dependencies or dominion-dependent boosts, could also be a neat solution. Summon Animals might summon bigger, stronger animals in a Growth scale, for instance.

Karlem · #2 March 10th, 2008, 05:55 PM

We have the options at hand:

1.- Make the changes in patches so SP people will not notice if they do not patch.
2.- Add a PDF to the Patch with the modifications done.

This way you can keep the manual as a basic rules book and the PDF file updated to the last changes.

You can also ship the game with the last patch and PDF file and everybody will be happy!

Dedas · #3 March 10th, 2008, 06:06 PM

I think Illwinter should forget an updated manual, at least for the moment. With so many changes and continuous patching I don't see the point, it is just too much work. It would be better to just wait until most bugs and extreme unbalances are fixed, and then release an updated manual in PDF. In the meantime we have the excellent in-game information and this forum to help us.

Endoperez · #4 March 10th, 2008, 06:13 PM

Dedas - scale bug was fixed for 3.14, which introduced a new scale bug. It was fixed in 3.15, but either .14 or .15 introduced "armies not moving" bug. Continuous patches are the result of "most bugs and extreme unbalances" being present, and sometimes being created by the patch.

PDF update to the manual would be really handy, though. That's a really good suggestion.

Dedas · #5 March 10th, 2008, 06:25 PM

I understand why the game needs to be updated regularly, that is natural when you change things in a big game like this one. My point is that it would be a waste of time to release an updated manual with every patch. Updating help texts should have low priority until it is relatively safe that the new features work as intended.
Also, the people that actually notice the different changes (not additions) and discusses them on the forums, aren't exactly newbies, so a manual is not really needed at once.

Another thing to remember is that you don't have to update the game to play and learn the basics as a newbie. I would suggest not to, so that you can use the printed manual as you play. When you feel ready to jump into MP, just download the latest patch and play some SP with a nation you like to get a feel for changes. When that is done you should stand a fair chance in any newbie game.

Twan · #6 March 11th, 2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Dedas said:
I think Illwinter should forget an updated manual, at least for the moment.

I think a good in between idea would be to release the spell list part of the manual* in an editable format to some dedicated players. Then a printable version with all the changes can be made by them, keeping the good presentation, for both vanilla game as it evolves and CBM or other spell changing mods.

* The game mechanics part of the manual would stay on paper only of course to avoid to encourage piracy.

B0rsuk · #7 March 11th, 2008, 08:03 AM

I think that NOT including a proper electronic manual is silly. Piracy concerns ? Security through obscurity ?
If it was up to me, there would be either no paper manual or it would only contain general stuff not dependant on patches. I may be strange, but I think listing all summons on inconvenient to use paper pages is waste of time, money, and trees.

Niarg · #8 March 11th, 2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

B0rsuk said:
I think that NOT including a proper electronic manual is silly. Piracy concerns ? Security through obscurity ?
If it was up to me, there would be either no paper manual or it would only contain general stuff not dependant on patches. I may be strange, but I think listing all summons on inconvenient to use paper pages is waste of time, money, and trees.

The problem is that this game is more of a project by someone that finds it fun than it is a commercial release. That tag comes with a lot of advantages and disadvantages, one of the disadvantages seems to be that he's very touchy about piracy and he'll make the game worse to try and prevent it.

kasnavada · #9 March 11th, 2008, 08:59 AM

Even though, the suggestion of letting a few dedicated players update the manual and proposing their time to make updated version of it stays good for me.

It is a lot confusing to have whole nations that are not included in the manual.

johan osterman · #10 March 21st, 2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Niarg said:

Quote:

B0rsuk said:
I think that NOT including a proper electronic manual is silly. Piracy concerns ? Security through obscurity ?
If it was up to me, there would be either no paper manual or it would only contain general stuff not dependant on patches. I may be strange, but I think listing all summons on inconvenient to use paper pages is waste of time, money, and trees.

The problem is that this game is more of a project by someone that finds it fun than it is a commercial release. That tag comes with a lot of advantages and disadvantages, one of the disadvantages seems to be that he's very touchy about piracy and he'll make the game worse to try and prevent it.

The manual thingy is Shrapnels policy, not Illwinters.

How has anti piracy efforts made the game worse?