Mod: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.75 minor update

[samoht]

Well sweet. What program do you use to make all of the sprites?

And with the Empire you could more or less just take sprites from the game, maybe recolor them a bit, change a couple stats and give them new descriptions... unless you're going for all original artwork.

I can't wait to see the Dwarves and Orcs/Goblins... you know... ages from now.

One idea for the Lizardmen... I don't know if you've already thought of this but maybe make a new pretender for them and make it an Old One. It would work well with their fluff, and the way the game works. One of their gods coming back to claim dominion of the world.

[Sombre]

I've pretty much decided I don't like doing pretenders for my mod nations. I will try to give them appropriate ones from the available selection though.

I've done quite a few sprites for the empire. I don't like working from base sprites, though I do sometimes use them as templates. I use Paint Shop Pro for my graphical editing.

I might bump the empire thread and put up some preview artwork or something. It's not my best work though.

As for Orcs and Goblins, Okin was working on them. Llamabeast has actually done a nation very close to Tomb Kings too and they play well.

[llamabeast]

Ooh wow, this is really exciting! Lizardmen would probably be top of my personal list of mods I'd like to see, so I was very happy to come home to find this post! I think the Lizardmen are thematically super cool.

I really like the analysis you've done as well, you have a good thorough style of planning things before you get stuck in.

I think I agree with Shovah's comments about the Saurus' prot and strength, though I guess playtesting will really be the best way of find out what works well.

I'm intrigued to see how you do the Slann (cost/magic). The unusual nature of having rare, super-powerful mages may make them quite a different nation to play off the bat.

[Valandil]

Not totally sure about your saurus stats. In WH they have ws4, giving them above average attack and defense. You're values do not reflect this adequately, in my opinion. In fact, in WH, saurus warriors, especially blessed ones, are probably in the top five infantry units. Your version would be in the bottom third, especially compared to eg. Panpiper's chaos warriors.

It occurs to me that these lizards will actually have MORE Slann, and flying ones at that, than most nations can field high mages. Being recruitable everywhere, AND summonable via ubiquitous astral, they will likely be massed. With native s5+, basically any army in the game will disingtegrate against lizard magic after about turn 45.

I honestly, if it wer my nation (and it isn't,) would shift the focus more towards the elite saurus infantry and monsters, and away from massed Slann.

By the way, Sombre, do you remember the old edition, when Slann Lords were fully capable combat toads? Otherwise known as the "flaming sword of rhuin" era?

[Sombre]

Uh,.. I don't see how being recruitable everywhere and summonable (these are different units mind you) will lead to Slann being 'massed'. They're going to be expensive both to recruit and to summon, which will prohibit massing them. The idea with restricting them to cap in order to restrict numbers is fine if you're accepting people will basically build 1 a turn because they're such a great deal. That isn't how I'm planning on doing things. I'm restricting their numbers by making sure they aren't a no brainer deal. Very powerful very expensive. It's a particularly weird that you're basically calling them overpowered when you have no idea of their cost and only a rough idea of their magic. People would mass them if they were an amazing bargain or something, sure, but they won't be and the regular units will be priced in a balanced way, so you won't end up ignoring their troops to recruit just commanders.

As for the Saurus - I have the lizardmen army book here and they have WS3, I1. Possibly they have WS4 in some ealier/later edition, but I haven't seen that. WS3 = roughly att 10, I1 = deduction to fighting skill in my book. But believe me with the bonus bite attack they will offensively be plenty dangerous. I'm willing to put their prot higher, but I really think you're overrating them in WH. They rarely break but they are MUCH worse than chaos warriors. Chaos Warriors have far better weapon skill, initiative and armour and everything else is pretty even. Compare the points costs. I'm not going to balance the dom3 versions against panpiper's chaos warriors either, because I have my own system and I'm not really familiar with panpiper's mod.

Temple Guard have WS4 and I2 and in dom3 terms I'll probably give them 12 att and 10 def or something.

[Valandil]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so hostile. In the newest book, saurus are WS4 I2. According to my lizardman player friend. He might be cheating me.

I have no idea whether slann will be overpowered, probably not given your reputation as a modder, but, in my extremely limited experiance, gold is not really an obstacle to mage produciton late game, and astral pearls are crazy common.

[Kristoffer O]

Hi I would probably make WH S4 = Dom Str12-14

So with the Saurians being cool I would go for Str 13 and perhaps increase the HP to 15.

Wardens and Black Lords have something like that in str (perhaps12) and HP IIRC and I guess they would translate as S4 T4 WS4 units.

[KimKhan]

I've tried as good as all of your other mods by now, and they are excellent! Though, your WHFB Lizardmen mod was what drew me towards adding mods to DOM3, and I can't get it to work. I made an account just so I could resolve this issue I'm having.

I can activate the mod, and I've tried in combinations with other mods (and having only the lizardmen mod activated), but as soon as I try to start a new game, I get the "Något gick fel!" box with the message "Bad #shapechange command".

What's the problem here? What can this poor newb do to fix this?