Why do people hate on Ulm?

[moderation]

Perhaps I should have said "a nation that newbies like, even if they are not successful with."

Why anyone would like a nation they can't succeed with still confuses me a bit, but I assume not everyone who uses Ulm is a newbie.

[B0rsuk]

moderation said:
Heh, thanks everyone for the informative and amusing input. hat is it about Ulm that makes it a good "newbie nation." Is it the limited options, or maybe the reduced amount of micromanagement needed?

Both.

Ulm is a magic-hating nation in a game with 600+ spells.
Their description sounds as if they'd make a good rush nation... but they don't. And past early game, their weaknesses become even more exposed. Which brings me to another point: it's very, very hard to balance something like Ulm. Without strong magic, they can't possibly have strong endgame. If you just buff their units, you just make them into a rush nation, and do nothing to adress their mid-late weakness.

Items are just not as important or versatile as spells. Magic items can be divided into few categories:
thug/SC equipment
magic boosters

ranged weapons (situational, and not very effective)
everything else.

Magic boosters and thugs/SC's win games. Ulm has little magic to boost, and no efficient thug/SC chasis. This leaves ranged weapons and various misc items. Not something you can build a strategy around. You could find some very specific good items, but depending on few such items makes you much more predictable (=vulnerable) than strong combat magic or SC's.
There are basically no magic items for boosting armies. I think this is a big deal for Ulm, which thematically should depend on steel. Only army-boosting items I can think of boost morale and increase leadership. Oh, and there's the staff of storms. They do nothing about resistances, darkness (no items to counter darkness ? WTF ?), toughness, damage potential. To boost regular armies, you have to rely on combat magic.

Suggestion to any Kristoffers who might be reading this post: Ulm would really like some national forgable items that boost regular armies in various ways, most notably resistances. This would make regular Ulm units better without making them a primitive rush nation.

I've seen an argument that Black Lords can make cost-effective thugs due to their low cost and Ulm's magic item discount. Using 4 black lords instead of 1 'regular' thug etc. This is totally backwards thinking. If you need 4 equipped black lords just to break even, Ulm's forge bonus is basically worthless (for black lords) because it's not an advantage. Another way of saying it is that Black Lords suck so much you need 25% forge bonus to break even with them.

[DonCorazon]

Not only that, playing MA Ulm left me feeling like the 18 year old stuck in 7th grade - that is to say everyone else was learning lots of good stuff to help them in the future whereas I was hopelessly stuck. They got to experiment with different magic research paths, interesting summons, artifacts, etc. whereas I (who took a really lame pretender as well: a 4e1w cyclops - its almost comical - i meant to take 1a so i could get gargoyles but somehow confused the air and water icon...) just looked at what i could get for 3e or less. and even 3e required earth boots. So I didn't learn much other than Ulm is not a Noob nation at all. The only easy thing about Ulm is that it is easy to convince everyone your not a threat...

[Evil Dave]

Dominions also has a bunch of things that can be learned only w/ "hard" nations: to really appreciate the strengths/weaknesses of blood magic, communions, and bless tactics, players really need to try (or read the forum about) nations that are good at those, and see how they work. Ulm, alas, has none of those.

I really wish MA Ulm worked somehow, that courage and steel could overcome magic, but so far, nobody's been able to figure out how.

[Kamamura]

Pshawoom, I say to those who lack the faith and courage. Even the strongest mage bleeds and even the most devout priest trembles with fear. Who cares about swords! Heavy things that crush and deform, that's the way. We come!

[Lingchih]

Ulm just sucks Kamamura. Get over it. I never even liked them in SP when I was a newbie. Come at me with Ulm in an MP game. I'll show you how it hurts.

[Lingchih]

Sorry. That was harsh. I just have never seen the appeal of ULM.

[capnq]

Evil Dave said: Way back when the earth was young and I'd just picked up Dom2, people recommended Ulm because it was easy to learn.

That recommendation always baffled me, as did the people who suggested starting with one of the underwater nations. Maybe they were talking about a good nation to learn the UI with, rather than strategy and tactics.

[llamabeast]

Kamamura is having an unlucky day on the forum (someone went crazy at him on a newbie game thread as well - not your fault Kamamura!)

capnq - people recommend starting with underwater nations?! Wow, that is insane. Way to put someone off.

[Digress]

I am in the process of discovering all over again how much fun playing an underwater nation isn't.

MA Oceania - looks dire on paper, is diabolical in practice. Bleh ...