Which nations most represent chaos or evil?

[B0rsuk]

I certainly don't agree about LA Marignon. They are about as 'evil' as MA Ermor - they try to control death/demons. Marignon is happy because the situation has stabilised. Demons are happy with their new revenue stream.

R'lyeh... They are not so much evil as uncaring. They treat humans and other intelligent beings as lower forms of life - similar to how humans treat animals. At least that's how they're described in Lovecraft's books. They dominate what they see as lower life forms. Compare to EA Arcoscephale. People of Arcoscephale are completely aware that slaves are people, too. Similar feelings, mental capacity, abilities, etc. Yet they benefit from slavery. They have time to engage in philosophy and arts because slaves perform all the menial tasks.

Lanka ? Lanka is dominated by demonic influence. Demons rule by fear. All the monkeys and apes aren't evil as such. They manage to overthrow their government by middle era.

[moderation]

The fact that Arcocephale practices slavery is interesting. Does this put them in the evil category then? Well maybe, but then again, by the standards of real world history around 3000 BC, maybe they weren't that bad. But it's a tricky question.

For the purposes of two faction game (which I admit may be over-simplified for a philosophical discussion), probably not since they would probably still oppose EA Mictlan's blood sacrificing demon holocaust. But then again, maybe Arcos would be indifferent or neutral as long as Mictlan's rituals didn't impact their way of life.

Of course when we're thinking about Acroscephale, we're also thinking about the ancient Greek city states that it was modeled on, so then things get more complicated if we want to get specific about which city-state and if we can really draw any comparisons. In any case, this is pretty interesting stuff.

[Kristoffer O]

Remember the Jotuns. They are evil per definition as enemies of the vanir (who in turn have no qualms on enslaving humans and other lesser beings).

I did not have the intention to do 'evil' or 'good' nations, but it might be fun to speculate in how evil a nation actually is. I have an easier time to see an 'evil' nation, since evil is in the eye of the beholder. Behold Mictlan and see what teh europeens saw in Mexico, and said it was evil. Any nation with connections to supernatural forces unfriendly to humans might be considered evil from a human perspective. The eye of the beholder works less well on 'good' nations. The 'great satan' of the rethoric of the late Ayatollah Khomeini considers itself to be the 'good' nation and 'defender of the free', even though many would argue the point. Swedes might consider sweden a nation of good sionce we have the secon highest tax pressure in the world and therefore have a good social security net (or whatever it is called). But Saudiarabia have income taxes at 2.5 % (not in the 50'es of sweden) and has is even lower hospital treatment costs than sweden. They cut the the hands of thieves, which might be percieved as cruel.

Hmm, I lost focus

Since most nations are humans I think the nations directly hostile to humanity qualify as evil. Abysia, Mictlan, LA Ermor, Niefelheim, Lanka, Fomoria, Yomi, Shinuyama.

Vanheim, Helheim, Bandar Log, C'tis might be considered evil in the sense that they care little for humans, but C'tis at least have had friendly contacts with Ermor in earlier ages and is probably considered ancient instead of evil.

Pangaea is definitely evil as a force opposed to civilization. At least in the earlier ages. That assumption might make EA Ulm evil as well, since they are opposed to the ermorian civilization, hope of humanity.

Hmm, is it the culture of the nations we are speaking, or their leader or their God? Culturally LA Ulm might be nice, but their leaders possibly evil.

Interesting poll though

[Sombre]

Are shinuyama directly hostile to humans?

[Kristoffer O]

Not more than in a cannibalistic ands hedonistic sense.

Edit: dai bakemono are probably less so, being bound by honor. Shuten doji, o-bakemono and bakemono-sho are definitely hostile to men/man-eaters. Kappas are more capricious. Some like to drown humans and suck their entrails out, while others can be friendly.

[Herode]

Then they are not hostile, just tasters.

Since most nations are humans I think the nations directly hostile to humanity qualify as evil. Abysia, Mictlan, LA Ermor, Niefelheim, Lanka, Fomoria, Yomi, Shinuyama.

Hmmmm... How could Mictlan be hostile to humanity ? they are part of humanity.

[Kristoffer O]

Perhaps by taking slaves and sacrificing other humans to appease their god, but OTOH it might be their god that is always hostile to humanity and not the nation.

LA Mictlan are toads and not humans

[sector24]

I think MA C'tis gets an honorable mention for chaos/evil. Even though their dominion doesn't kill population in the game, I imagine the miasma as an extremely hazardous event from a peasant's point of view. Maybe not evil in the "I starve kittens" kind of way, but perhaps evil in the way R'lyeh is evil.

(It's the apostrophe in their name that makes them treat humans so poorly)

[Herode]

LA Mictlan are toads and not humans

So what ? You don't like toads, you racist

I neither encourage the overcriticism against C'tis MA. OK, they stink, but they do not stink in an hostile mood. It's just the way they are. No offense intended. Fate, just fate... And also, the eternal rules of heterogeneous ecosystems competition. OK, I won't be happy having C'tis as a neighbour, me human. But neither will I having any neighbour at all as in Dom III (and many other games) your neighbours just appear to have a compulsive behaviour leading them to invade your own territories.

Ho well, after all, maybe evil is just another word for the guy in the next floor'