Mod: Ermor - The Restoration - Draft v0.75

[Edi]

Nevermind the tangent, Foodstamp. If not for that skeleton mod, this thread would not exist.

Now, I managed to draft a halfway decent version of LA Broken Empire (epithet changed to "The Restoration"), but obviously it needs some more work. Mainly it needs a couple of more beefed up infantries, as the current ones are pretty underprotected for LA. The Restoration Renata and Renatus also need the gold costs increased some. Otherwise I'm fairly happy with it. The main point was to get the thematics right from the get-go. All the mage and Broken Empire specific commanders and units had their descriptions altered (Lictor and Shadow Vestal included).

The MA Ashen Empire still has a screwed up description and summary since those seem to be hardcoded into the game and modifying a nation's era requires copy-pasting the description, summary and brief into the mod file to get it all right.

This mod does not conflict with any existing mod since the new Renata and Renatus replace the unused Human Huskarl units 1603 and 1604. The mod file is extensively commented.

Now, I want feedback, especially on the thematics. The balance issue with the Renata and Renatus is another thing that merits its own hashing out.

[Meglobob]

This mod already exists and has done for some time AFAIK.

The one age mod or all ages mod allows you to play with any nation of any age all together.

So you simply select all MA Nations minus MA Ermor and put LA Ermor in, I do it in SP all the time, as a impossible LA Ermor provides more of a challenge.

Unless of course Edi you plan on altering the units/leaders/mages of either/both MA/LA Ermor.

Edit

Just read Edi's last post , yes I understand you are changing the nations so they are more thematic.

Good idea...

[VedalkenBear]

Since a comment I made seems to have sparked this, I guess I should comment...

1) Thematics is good. You should write up some more stuff for stuff like the Ermorian Cultist.

2) The income probably should be 3D, 1S. Maybe even 2D, 2S.

3) The Renatus/Renata fit, really... if you really wanted to, you could make mention about how Pythium assisted in the Restoration, which would explain why they are present. (Whole Eastern Roman Empire helping to restore the Western Roman Empire thing.)

[Cerlin]

I would like to say from using this so far I like the way LA one works best. The MA one I have watched Ermor expand but not overpoweringly yet. They are first, but me and C'tis are right behind them. I'll keep testing into it some.

[hnchrist3]

Wow.

As an LA-Ermor convert, I don't know what to say.

Given that, in other threads, LA-Ermor and LA-R'lyeh rank as the (muddy) #1/#2 powers, it is probably unwise to introduce them to the Middle Age.

To form an analogy from Dickens:
An ant is what it is, and a grasshopper is what it is, and Christmas is a humbug.
LA-Ermor is what it is, and LA-R'lyeh is what it is, and mixing ages is <freaking crazy>!

Are your really serious? Taking one of the most feared age/nations and moving it DOWN one? In its own age it is difficult to deal with, what chance have these mortals against it as literal amateurs?
================================================== ====
As an LA-Ermor enthusiast, I humbly suggest you disband the thought as, anyone with Ermor prowress WILL conqueror the world.
Necessarily.
Work it out. Who can resist?
{Ermor's recent kill ratio/fix helps it along particularly in earlier ages. "Earlier=Weaker" and its new kill ratio makes Ermor unsurmountable in earlier ages.}
================================================== ==
If I am wrong, feel free to chastise me.
Understand that I have been playing LA-Ermor for over a year.

In this thread I want to emphasize that LA-Ermor has NO PLACE in earlier ages, as in its own place it is difficult enough to deal with.
------------------------------------
Faithfully submitted,
HNC3.

[Sensori]

What? MA is the closest to what Dominions 1 was like. With this mod, it'll be even closer to it.

Yay for "everyone gang up on Ermor!", D1 style!

[Endoperez]

Middle has MORE magic than Late. Middle has easier access to cheap, unarmoured archers than Late. Middle has easier access to decent low-resource cost infantry, although that varies from nation to nation. Middle has less Death magic than Late, which does hurt a bit, but then again EVERYONE will gang up on Ermor, if only to get the death gems that will enable them to get access to Death magic.

Some nations have lots more trouble against Ermor than others, but that's also true in LA. MA Ulm especially will have trouble killing the spawn fast enough before it gets Blade Wind, and there are some other nations that will have trouble, like Kailasa which also has very weak priests.

[Cerlin]

Couldnt Kailasa just spam Solar Rays (I think its the zombie killer?) That one works amazing, especially in communion. I used it LA with Bogarus before and its amazing. Verses Ermor that is.

[Edi]

hnchrist3 said:
Given that, in other threads, LA-Ermor and LA-R'lyeh rank as the (muddy) #1/#2 powers, it is probably unwise to introduce them to the Middle Age.

Ever played Dom2 against Ashen Empire? It's quite beatable in MA.

hnchrist3 said:
Are your really serious? Taking one of the most feared age/nations and moving it DOWN one? In its own age it is difficult to deal with, what chance have these mortals against it as literal amateurs?

Completely serious. See the suggestions posted by the worthies who responded to you earlier. Ashen Empire has been beaten many times before.

hnchrist3 said:
As an LA-Ermor enthusiast, I humbly suggest you disband the thought as, anyone with Ermor prowress WILL conqueror the world.
Necessarily.

Previous evidence disagrees with you. And I assure you I have absolutely no intention of abandoning this little mod project. None whatsoever.

hnchrist3 said:
If I am wrong, feel free to chastise me.
Understand that I have been playing LA-Ermor for over a year.

You happen to be wrong, because many people played against Ashen Empire in Dominions 2, where all we had were the Middle Era nations (mostly) and Ashen Empire was by no means unstoppable. I've been involved with Dominions for several years now, ever since Dominions - PPP, first as a player and mapmaker, then a community documenter and for the past year and change as the moderator in charge of the bug reporting in addition to doing the community documentation on my own. I have a fairly long experience of the game and of its various aspects, so I suggest that I do know what I'm doing with this project.

hnchrist3 said:
In this thread I want to emphasize that LA-Ermor has NO PLACE in earlier ages, as in its own place it is difficult enough to deal with.

I would like to emphasize that Illwinter Games, the developer of the game, disagrees with you. See Gath Dev Diary thread on the forum and Kristoffer's encouragement for this mod earlier in the thread. In addition, several longtime players who are veterans of countless MP games, also disagree with you and have the numbers and earlier experience to back up what they say.

All of that said, nice getting to know you. New faces are always welcome.

Just be prepared to have your viewpoints challenged if you present them as unequivocally as you do.

[Edi]

VedalkenBear said:
Since a comment I made seems to have sparked this, I guess I should comment...

Thanks! I should say that the idea has been kicking around in the back of my head ever since I first talked about the thematics and history of Ermor with Kristoffer some months ago and it got some more wind in its sails from the Halt Heretic thread, which is the main post of mine Kristoffer referred to in the Gath Dev Diary thread. You can find that thread here and the exact post is here.

VedalkenBear said:
1) Thematics is good. You should write up some more stuff for stuff like the Ermorian Cultist.

Ermorian Cultist is part of both Ashen Empire and Broken Empire unit roster, so it would be a very difficult trick to alter that without screwing things up for one nation or the other. The description as it currently stands is acceptable.

VedalkenBear said:
2) The income probably should be 3D, 1S. Maybe even 2D, 2S.

Good point. Hadn't thought of that. I'll see what I can do about that this evening. Won't be difficult. I also thought of adding a new startsite to give the Broken Empire/Restored Ermor a unit like the Pythian Comitatense in LA. I also need to look into adding a Primani type heavier infantry with mapmove 1, because the MA legionnaires can be classified as medium-heavy infantry at best. The tower shield helps, though, but the armor is way below most LA nations.

The problem is that there are few unused unit slots within the existing framework, four in all that I know of, maybe one more. I just used two of those on the Ermorian Renata and Renatus.

VedalkenBear said:
3) The Renatus/Renata fit, really... if you really wanted to, you could make mention about how Pythium assisted in the Restoration, which would explain why they are present. (Whole Eastern Roman Empire helping to restore the Western Roman Empire thing.)

These two are units 1603 & 1604, cleared and copystatted, NOT the Pythian Renata and Renatus. I wanted them there, but the thematics had to be different. Check the descriptions...