End Game Slaughter Moves

[triqui]

So, perhaps a list of clearly forbidden things in MP should be made, separated from the general bugs list.

That would be a nice thing, yes

[Zeldor]

DonCorazon:

Well, you need 1 sections with rules that you must obey ['do not exploit bugs' + list] and a list of definitions of common things [NAPs here, also words like thug, SC, etc.].

[thejeff]

A shortlist of exploits generally considered forbidden would be good, though I suspect there'd be much debate over what got included.

I'd rather not see NAP rules formalized, though. Maybe a clear statement that different people interpret NAP differently, so you should spell out what you mean.
Anything that reduces diplomacy further towards: "NAP-3?", "k" is a bad thing.
I'd much rather encourage a little more roleplaying and actual negotiation instead.

[kasnavada]

1) What's an exploit? Lots of interesting things in this game seem to be possibly unintentional ways things interact.

My definition of an exploit is : something that doesn't work as intended. Items on a bug list do not work as intended (that's pretty obvious). When a doubt arise (VoTD comes to mind), ask the question of whether it's balanced and working as intended. If yes, nothing is to change. If not, it's a bug. Therefore using it is an exploit.

The scripting of Mists of Deception + battlefield wide spell is therefore obviously an exploit. That is only my opinion though.

By the way, it would seem that unlike you said Tuidjy, the one you accused really didn't know.

[Foodstamp]

An exploit should be defined as an action that keeps an enemy from playing the game. An example would be flooding someone's item inventory with slave collars. You have eliminated the player's ability to forge items and the player has no recourse beyond doing the same to you.

I can't think of anything else in the game that should be considered an exploit, because everything else can be countered, even if it has to be thought about ahead of time in pretender design.

I 100% agree with thejeff concerning NAPs. Standardizing NAPs will cut down on conflict in the game which is a bad thing. NAPs already effectively eliminate some of the combat even though people interpret them differently. And as Jeff said, standardizing NAPs will cut down on communication, roleplay etc, once again a bad thing.

[Tuidjy]

Foodstamp, how do you counter the Mists of Deception combo? Please share your
incredible insight with us! Being less knowledgable that you obviously are,
I do not know how to take a castle guarded by mages that cast Mists of
Deception, Quagmire, Storm, a mix of damage spells, and ritual of returning.
And are back next turn, of course.

And if you say, oh, just have a bunch of storm demons/air elementals, well no,
it is not necessarily enough. How many nations can really have that
available every time they storm a castle the late game, anyway?

Now, I am not even asking about killing every single teleporting attacker before
they unleash the combo on an army in the field. I know that a great player like
you will never have an army without storm demons whose orders are copied from
Bogusm, or walk an army through a province that has no nested domes over it.

> By the way, it would seem that unlike you said Tuidjy, the one you accused
> really didn't know.

Only if one believes he does not read the threads he posts to. I'm no electric monk.

[Foodstamp]

Tuidjy said:
Foodstamp, how do you counter the Mists of Deception combo? Please share your
incredible insight with us! Being less knowledgable that you obviously are,
I do not know how to take a castle guarded by mages that cast Mists of
Deception, Quagmire, Storm, a mix of damage spells, and ritual of returning.
And are back next turn, of course.

And if you say, oh, just have a bunch of storm demons/air elementals, well no,
it is not necessarily enough. How many nations can really have that
available every time they storm a castle the late game, anyway?

Now, I am not even asking about killing every single teleporting attacker before
they unleash the combo on an army in the field. I know that a great player like
you will never have an army without storm demons whose orders are copied from
Bogusm, or walk an army through a province that has no nested domes over it.

> By the way, it would seem that unlike you said Tuidjy, the one you accused
> really didn't know.

Only if one believes he does not read the threads he posts to. I'm no electric monk.

Do I really deserve so much sarcasm from you? So many crybabies on these boards lately. It should not be my responsibility to reiterate some of the counters that were given just because I gave my perceived definition of an exploit.

Your tears sustain me.

[K]

I know that I'm in the minority, but I don't think anything should be banned.

Everyone can use these tactics, so there is nothing inherently unfair about them.

Considering that all of these tactics have a counter, I don't even know why people whine so badly. For example, if the Neiflehiem army in the first post had exercised a little foresight, they could have killed that pretender with some flying units on attack large monster, or cast spells like Petrify, Claws of Cocytus, multiple +penetration Paralyzes, or any number of other ways. Heck, a commander with a bow or someone with a damaging spell could have forced the guy's Returing to activate before he even got one spell off.

At the end of the day, I'm angrier that sometimes someone finds Echantresses or Wizards, or that a blood nation finds the Summoning Circle, and I don't find an equivalent despite doing site searches for all paths on my territory.

PS.

"how do you counter the Mists of Deception combo? Please share your incredible insight with us! Being less knowledgeable that you obviously are, I do not know how to take a castle guarded by mages that cast Mists of Deception, Quagmire, Storm, a mix of damage spells, and ritual of returning. And are back next turn, of course"

Thats actually pretty easy. You cast assassin spells on the home province and kill those mages.

This is the late game obviously, so if you expect force of arms and sheer numbers of units to win the day then you are sadly mistaken.

[Edi]

Foodstamp said:
An exploit should be defined as an action that keeps an enemy from playing the game. An example would be flooding someone's item inventory with slave collars. You have eliminated the player's ability to forge items and the player has no recourse beyond doing the same to you.

That's an exploit of the message system which can be added to the bug list so that total messages sent to the same player by any single player be capped at e.g. eight. The removal of ability to forge items is only temporary and unless the opponent can keep flooding you with 50 slave collars per turn, he hasn't accomplished much except waste blood slaves that could have been used more productively.

Not defending this practice, it's abuse through and through, but for some reason I get the impression that people seem to regard as if it was a permanent state of affairs once it was done.

[Twan]

In fact it's a totally ridiculous exploit : the victim will just send back the 50 slave collars, and it's the bad guy who will be unable to forge the next turn (may end in ping pong).