End Game Slaughter Moves

[K]

lch said:

Same here. Well, I think I may have used it once, but didn't find it that awesome a spell to start with. Fog warriors is an awesome spell, though. As are lots of other things from Air.

The one thing air does well at all is Air Shield and Mistform. Thats two spells.

Everything else Air does costs gems, and Air gems are not in my experience a common gem type. For example, building both boosters costs 50 gems and requires A4. Cloud Trapeze, Seeking Arrows, Storm, Arrow Fend, Wind Guide, Wrath of God, and almost every other good Air magic costs gems, and when you factor in the price of making boosters against the number of gems you use for rituals, the raw amount of Air magic you use it very small compared to others. I mean, with Fire I can throw some Fever Fetishes on Scouts and cast Flaming Arrows every battle on top of the fact that I don't have to do anything crazy to get a spell booster (Phoenix Power, in this case). Water can do the same with with sea trolls, Astral with Clams, and Earth with Blood Stones.

Thunderstrike is an OK spell, but it has a small area of effect and your mages fatigue out quickly. People who sing its praises tend to say things like "have you ever seen fifteen mages spamming Thunderstrike?" Yes, but fifteen mages apamming any of the good Evocations is impressive. Air mages are just doing it at a higher fatigue price with fewer kills.

Wrathful Skies is only impressive when you have a small army and they have a small army. Against big armies, I'll take any of the other battlefield destroying spells.

[Zenzei]

Air magic users definitely do not need to do anything crazy to get their spell booster (summon storm power). Just give Staff of Storms for every mage heavy army you have and you're done. Storm is also a very useful spell in itself and worth one air gem per battle, which is pretty equal to the benefit you get from having a fever fetish/sea troll/clam/blood stone with your army.

[thejeff]

Nothing crazy?

Well, it's certainly possible. Requires Construction 6 and a A4 mage to get Staff of Storms, or similar levels for the Storm spell (Don't remember offhand). Compared to the other path boosters, which mostly take only Conjuration 3 and 2 or level in the path.
(Note that's a native A4 mage, since the Air booster items are also A4)

Beyond that, Storm shuts down Flight and archery, which are generally strengths of the Air nations.
Storm is a situationally useful spell. It's great when you're enemy is relying on archers and/or fliers and you're not. Disastrous when it's the other way around.

[Zenzei]

I admit earth & fire booster spells are better than air booster spell but water & nature booster spells certainly are not. Astral booster spell is great if you have a lot of mages on the battlefield, otherwise it sucks.

About the tangle between storm/flight/archery: air magic does not equal Caelum, although the birdmen certainly are powerful in it. Nations like Vanheim, Fomoria & Tir na Nog are top notch air users as well and they don't have any of that flight/archery nonsense.

Anyway, I find this discussion about air magic interesting and will start own thread for it soonishly. I will write my own thoughts into guide of sorts and hopefully the discussion will continue there.

[thejeff]

I was also thinking MA Man for archery. And even without recruitable fliers, the flight spells are all air, including Mass Flight. And the flying boots, quite useful for thugs.

[Twan]

I wasn't asking "is air magic weak or good ?" but "is MoD such a key spell for air mages that it must stay available in its current state ?".

I may add some questions :

- is using MoD without a dammage BE, but with a retreating caster, an exploit or not ?

If you cast MoD and your mage isn't killed on the battlefield, you are completely sure to rout the opponent after a 50 rounds long fight (and if he use a communion with masters staying on the field, you will also probably kill all the slaves with fatigue -and as well any troop with natural exhaustion, like clockwork horrors or turtlemen will be slain by such a long fight-). The only exception may be : if you attack someone who cast MoD himself (as auto-rout happen before to the attacking side iirc).

- is using MoD without a retreating caster an exploit or not ?

If the caster is not slain but routed with his army (or alone after a failed morale check), MoD seem to continue to work exactly like described above. MoD + a low morale army can replace scripted retreat (and be worse, if using casters and units not scripted to retreat is considered a sufficient excuse to allow the famous MoD + BE combo).


IMO, MoD shouldn't be used at all before a fix.

[K]

Twan said:

IMO, MoD shouldn't be used at all before a fix.

Like I said, considering that Air is the weakest path, don't expect anyone to play an Air nation if you deny them one of their only good late-game spells.

[Zeldor]

But there are many ways to abus it...

Unquenched Sword [are there any other items with smth also so nasty] + MoD + Armor of Virtue or Ritual of Returning

Mages casting BE + MoD + Vortex of Returning


Maybe with all that attention now we will get some things fixed in next patch

[Edi]

K said:

Like I said, considering that Air is the weakest path, don't expect anyone to play an Air nation if you deny them one of their only good late-game spells.

What exactly are you smoking and how illegal is it where you live, K? I have never before this heard Air magic characterized as the weakest path. Fire and Water are both weaker from what I've seen, though both have their useful sides, but Air has all kinds of uses all around, which makes it very versatile.

That post of yours makes you sound like one of the people who just abuses the crap out of MoD and is complaining at the prospect of having his toy taken away.