Adjudication on a NAP -edited please comment again

[Aezeal]

well Sombre it was clarified later on.

PS Karlem do we have an official NAP in vampirebat? If not we should talk about it

edit: we have a 5 turn NAP I could find in our messages..

[K]

No oaths made, in my opinion.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah I dont consider this NAP to be binding. Sombre makes a good point that if he was willing for a 3-turn, it makes logical sense that he would probably accept a 2-turn. But the key word is probably. You cant know with complete assurance what someone else is thinking unless they tell you explicitly. So if you recieved no message of the nature "I agree to these terms" then there is no agreement.

[Baalz]

Yep, I generally don't consider an agreement reached unless one party accepts a proposal from the other without modification.

[triqui]

Ironhawk said:
Yeah I dont consider this NAP to be binding. Sombre makes a good point that if he was willing for a 3-turn, it makes logical sense that he would probably accept a 2-turn. But the key word is probably. You cant know with complete assurance what someone else is thinking unless they tell you explicitly. So if you recieved no message of the nature "I agree to these terms" then there is no agreement.

By the same logic, if he was willing for a 3-turn and you proposed a 5-turn he "probably" would accept as well. However, a Nap2, Nap3 and Nap5 are completelly diferent kind of diplomatical agreements, and sometimes you want to accept a Nap3, but you wont accept a Nap5 or Nap2.

I think this nap is not binding as well

[Loren]

No agreement, no NAP.

I can see his thinking there was, though. He made a proposal, you gave a counterproposal he found acceptable and he went with it. He just goofed in not telling you it was accepted.

[Saxon]

I agree, both Diplomacy and Dominions do and should shift on the larger power issues. Once should expect and understand that allies will change and stabs will happen. A good stab will make sense and people will see it coming. Hopefully, a turn after it is too late! However, not all stabs will be good or successful, which is also part of the game. I had expected more of this, a kind of agreement to disagree. Diplomacy is very transparent, while Dominions is not, so I would expect a higher level of deception, as there are more tools to do so.

What I am more concerned about is the perception, largely on the forums, that any breaking of a NAP should result in your name being blacklisted. Creating a second identity is an option, but is a real deceit. I would rather accept that deceit will happen within the game, but that people understand and accept some degree of it. When you trust someone, there is a risk.

A certain level of trust is needed for NAP, but there are ways to generate that in game. Scouts in your neighbor’s territory, messages that armies will be moving in a certain way at a certain time, frequent discussions, hostage provinces. All those build trust that a NAP is being upheld. Sure, it is more work, but isn’t it worth the assurance? Isn’t it also more “realistic?” You can gauge your level of risk.

In any case, it is interesting to discuss this point, as it does reflect on a fundamental part of the game, but one that is not in the code or the manual.

On the role playing side, I am personally biased. If a game is role playing, great, you should all go for it. Just agree on the rules. Remember that not everyone agrees who is good and evil. There was a poll on this recently, which suggested that this is a muddy area. Further, you have to deal with the real person, the forum person and the role playing pretender, so be ready for some confusion. Am I Dave, Saxon or The Unhappy One? What if I slip up?

If it is not role playing, don’t expect anyone to do anything based on their nation. It is simpler.

Finally, on Hoplosternum’s point about winning. People who really want to win come in at least two sizes. Some will be happy beating the AI, even though there is no challenge. Others recognize that SP is the third division and will only be happy if they win in the premiership. They are two very different personality types with two very different motivations. I hope that the second type will have the thoughtfulness to realize that they need to ensure they are playing exactly the game they want to be in and leave the less hard core to our games. That way they can be fully satisfied when they win and the rest of us are fully satisfied with our games.

[Agrajag]

The Shrapnel Board Rules state:

8) MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS:
Registering and using multiple accounts is not allowed. If we determine that you have more than one account (by matching IPs, etc), all accounts will lose their posting privileges. If you have some reason for why you would like to make a new account and close your old one, please write to an admin. If you have some legitimate reason for needing a second account (although we don’t know why you would) please discuss your case with an admin.

So using another username to play certain MP games and another to post is against the rules.