The problem of fort types

[Edi]

Sombre said:
Given that Machakan units all have forest survival and they have the God Forest and God Mountain magic sites, I'm not sure they're really a grassland nation.

MA Machaka would prefer forest. EA would be a more plains-based nation (lions are plains creatures, not forest).

[Tuidjy]

<thejeff > That's why having cheap, quick lousy forts is an advantage over having slow expensive good forts.

<Sombre> The 'good' forts have to be either the same build time or less, or they're still a disadvantage.

My suggestion would result in cheap, quick, good forts in the prefered province. They may be too good,
but a disadvantage they aren't. And the best part is that it is absolutely simple to code, as long as there is
no hard limit to the number of possible forts.

As for Machaka, you are indeed right. For some reason I keep thinking of them as savanna dvelers.

[Endoperez]

Yeah, Fort Modding Commands and a Conceptual Buildings mod would be nice. I suggest sacrificing albino mares on moonless nights, and black cows during full moon.

[Twan]

Wauthan said:
If there would ever be a Dominions 4 then forts and battlefields could use an overhaul. In my opinion 'attacking the breach' is not nearly deadly enough. While the defender has an advantage it feels fairly small, and I'm not sure that the attacker risk losing far more units compared to a standard battle.

Being able to cast first means in endgame a defender with powerful mages and a good script destroys or enslave any normal army without any chance for the attacker to counter it (as all defender spells are cast before the attacker can doe anything). I've seen situations where storming is only possible with SCs, any troop with less than 20 MR being enslaved, and any mage without lots of hp or protection being killed by battlefield round one dammage (with combos using mass enslave spells with penetration gear, army of gold/fog warriors and chained rain of stones or earthquakes).

The only known counters are to attack the province several time a turn, so defensive mages waste their gems in magic phase or against another opponent ; or destroy defenders with rituals (hoping they go through the domes).

A fort allow the defender to be sure to be attacked only one time per turn, so it essencially make him invincible as long he has a good number of powerful mages inside (and domes/resist gear to protect them from rituals) and the attacker don't have a sufficient number of assassins (only way to make mages use their gems before storming) nor teams of SCs able to take the fort alone.

If there is one day a dominions 4 my first hope for the battlefield system is to see an initiative system between individuals instead of the actual all defenders cast then all attakers, all defensive mages always casting first + forts allowing to be attacked only one time/turn are a too big advantage making endgame boring (for the defenders of a fort) or frustrating (in attack) as hell.

On the fort subject I know it will never be the case, but I think the best system would be to globally limit the number of forts (with a system like : each fort built increase the cost of the next by half ; or each nation can only make a fort if the nation has actually less than 1 fort for 6 or 7 provinces) and to make fort building impossible out of a limited number of terrains for each nation (most nations should be allowed to build only on plains and farmland + one national terrain ; and some nations of exceptionnal builders on more). Then terrains would become really important, and you'll see Ct'is declare wars just to get one more swamp.

[Sombre]

If we had fort modding you could make that a semi-reality by assigning a 100 turn build time fort to any terrain you didn't want them building on. Actually a gold cost of 800000 might make more sense since that would stop the AI being stupid and going for that 100 turn one.

[Xietor]

I agree that the number of forts does make the endgame fairly unbearable.

Some sort of limit on the number that can be built, or that forts cannot be built next to another fort would help move the games along. Especially maddening in the endgame is when forts can be erected instantly by magical means.

Making warfare on a 300 province map between 2 skilled players(last 2 standing) a slow grinding fatiguing process.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

I am just starting war like that. Turn 91, 2players + AI left. Map not so huge, but still. Heavily fortified landscape... that will take ages to finish.

[Ironhawk]

Twan said:
A fort allow the defender to be sure to be attacked only one time per turn, so it essencially make him invincible as long he has a good number of powerful mages inside (and domes/resist gear to protect them from rituals) and the attacker don't have a sufficient number of assassins (only way to make mages use their gems before storming) nor teams of SCs able to take the fort alone.

Eh? Just because the defender can act first does not make them invincible by any means. If you have the defender seiged in a fort then they are at your mercy. Let them starve while you carefully prepare your army with whatever resistances you need to meet thier mages. Then just storm and wipe them out. I think you are seriously overrating the defenders ability to act first - either on the field or in a seige.

[Twan]

I was speaking about endgame, when high level spells and indies/summoned mages with interesting paths are available (and matrixes are forged if a communion is needed).

Acting first means the ennemy
- can't cast army of gold/lead or fog warriors, so will lose all mages without armors, and any low protection troop, against a few rain of stones or earthquakes (when your own will be protected by one of these spells)
- can't cast antimagic so enslave with a mage with penetration gear steals half his army (or other mass MR spell work as well)
- can't cast any resist spell so the high level 25+ squares AoE destroy any troop at range
- will have reduced effects for all spells his surviving mages may cast as you will have used antimagic, a mass protection spell, fog warriors, all resist spells you want, etc... before their first action

[Argitoth]

One thing I always wanted was roads between castles. As in, no movement hinderance between castles regardless of land type.