dominion spread

[MaxWilson]

Raising dominion locally is easier than extinguishing it locally--dominions prefers to spread rather than deepen/attack. I haven't done a lot with dominion killing, but I suspect you'd have gotten it more quickly by building lots of temples (way more than 7) back in A's homeland.

Paradoxically, it would also help if A and B were both surrounded by a hostile (high) dominion C, so that A's successful temple checks didn't spread so far and had a better chance of landing on B.

Keeps do not generate extra dominion, but homelands (capitals) do generate one (special) temple check each round. That, plus his temple, is probably what helped B push back A's dominion.

(The specialness of the temple check is that it's one of the few temple checks that actually works as advertised in the manual, i.e. increases by 1 for every 5 temples built. Pretender and prophet checks work this way too IIRC, but most other temples just check against your starting Dominion.)

-Max

[Micah]

Max, where did you get the intel about prophets/home prov/pretenders getting the extra spread from temples? Just the first time I'd heard it confirmed.

[MaxWilson]

Micah,

It's not firsthand--I've never tested dominion spread--and since I can't find a link to my source you should probably disregard it. Sorry.

If I were to test it, I would probably make a special map with some provinces that have no neighbors, then teleport a prophet/pretender in there and observe for a few turns. If you start with a dominion of 1 and build 50 temples it should be pretty easy to observe which dominion score is in effect. Harder to do that with your homeland, but doable if you disconnect it from any neighbors and make Arco zero out your home province dominion with (empowered, teleporting) skeptics.

-Max

[Endoperez]

Dom2 thread in which Kristoffer says something similar to Max's first comment:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...&Number=329384

Dom3 thread in which Twan's test seemed to support the above, even though Kristoffer said that the manual should be right.
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...&Number=480318

[Coldshard]

I appreciate the help everyone

MaxWilson said:
Keeps do not generate extra dominion, but homelands (capitals) do generate one (special) temple check each round. That, plus his temple, is probably what helped B push back A's dominion.

Just to make sure I am being clear, difficult without a diagram, the keep that I was sitting next to with my pile of guys did not have a temple, was it their main keep, did not have the opposing pretender in it, nor did it have anyone preaching.

Basically a side B dominion undefended province surrounded by side A dominion and a whole lot of guys who should spread dominion like crazy took a suicidally long time to overcome, from the point of view of a normal game amount of time.



I will check out the links more thoroughly shortly, I just found the exercise to be a little disheartening in that it took longer than sieging the keep normally.. and sieging a keep takes way too long in a normal game without splurging on specialized gear for the attempt.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, if a capital has a temple it generates two checks per round. Even without a temple it generates one. You had a temple, a pretender, and a prophet parked next door, which adds up to something like three and a half temple checks.

-Max

[Agrajag]

I'm pretty sure dominion spread spreads in a random direction, so if you park temples and prophets and whatnot in a province next to an enemy castle, there's only a small chance the spread will even go to that castle (because your province also has many other neighbours to spread the dominion to).
Maybe if you surrounded their castle with temples in all surrounding provinces...

[Micah]

It mostly just boils down to dom-kill not being a very good way to take out an opposing nation in most cases. The couple of times I've actually managed to use it as a good tactic were one time with preaching (Against Mictlan, meaning he had incredibly low dom-spread and no ability to preach or spread dominion without a temple) and a massive blood-sacrifice campaign with LA Marignon and their H3 priests against a newish player that didn't notice what I was up to, but was playing LE Ermor and just had too many troops to deal with.

[Coldshard]

MaxWilson said:
Yeah, if a capital has a temple it generates two checks per round. Even without a temple it generates one. You had a temple, a pretender, and a prophet parked next door, which adds up to something like three and a half temple checks.

-Max

The juggernaut spell claims that they each spread dominion like a prophet...

I'm not sure when the dominion checks are made (as in before or after summoning) but I was looking at something like this:

Round 1: 1 automatic, 4 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 2: 1 automatic, 5 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 3: 1 automatic, 6 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 4: 1 automatic, 7 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 5: 1 automatic, 8 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 6: 1 automatic, 9 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 7: 1 automatic, 10 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 8: 1 automatic, 11 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 9: 1 automatic, 12 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B
Round 10: 1 automatic, 13 temple checks for side A, 0 checks for side B

and so on until round 20 when side B's dominion in the province finally dropped by 1 point.

This seems.. unreasonable.. to me.

[MaxWilson]

Hmm, that does seem unreasonable. How high was your dominion? I.e. what was the temple check %?