Component Modding 101

[Iskander]

Well having gotten hooked onto SEIV about 2 sleepless weeks ago, it didn't take me long to get stuck into playing around with modding, what fun..

Bear with me as I describe my thought process, it does lead somewhere.

First I thought lets bring all the ships down to more 'realistic' sizes, but then I remembered that HPs are related to hull size, d'oh, don't quite want to get into redoing all the weapons just yet.
Well at least the semi neutonian physics as per Proportions works as I wanted the system to move.

So now I'm still left with the feeling that more hull size varieties are needed, but I believe we can't add ship sizes to the roster yet?

So then I thought 'Streamlining' is the answer, if we can't reduce physical hull sizes we can simulate it. And for that I came up with a streamline component.
Now I need to know if this is a valid module description that will behave as intended?

Here's the module first tech level and then I'll list my concerns. Maybe someone can shed some light.

Name := Streamlining I
Description := Streamlining the hull decreases supply costs and increases agility.
Pic Num := x
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := -5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Vehicle Control
Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 1 Descr := Gives a 3% defense bonus in combat (only 1 component per ship effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 3
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

First question is the one component per ship rule, does that apply to the ability or the individual components? ie: will it stack with the defensive armor? In fact what if I want to allow more than one of this component?

Will a negative supply amount work?

How does the family number relate to 'show only latest' when designing a ship? Would it be better (if possible) to make a new family of say 'Hull Tech'?

Thanks for taking the time...

Isk...

[dogscoff]

I'm no modder but this is an interesting idea. A few points:

Sooner or later someone will point out that "streamlining" has no real effect on a space ship, since there is no atmosphere in space and hence no air resistance. Thought I might as well get in first, and say that you shouldn't let this get in the way of your plans though if it adds an interesting new twist to gameplay.

Secondly, there's nothing at all to stop you adding new hull types. Take a little look at Andres Lescano's ultimate vehicle size mod for an extreme example of this.

Nextly, I'm not entirely sure that hitpoints *are* dictated by tonnage, but I could be wrong. If they are, you might be able to get around this using component mounts - take a look at the pirates and nomads mod for some clever uses of mounts.

Finally, good luck with your modding.

[Iskander]

Yes true, in the sense of streamlining to reduce drag, but in the sense of shaving off (unneeded) weight and using lighter alloys in places, it would have an effect on engine to weight ratio, which would make a ship a bit more agile and also getting a better 'mile per gallon' ratio.

It's funny, I found the ultimte ship mod 5 minutes after that post.

I'll check out P&N too, thanks for the pointers...

Isk...

[capnq]

quote:

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Nextly, I'm not entirely sure that hitpoints *are* dictated by tonnage, but I could be wrong.

---

Components are defined by "tonnage space" and "tonnage structure".

"Tonnage space" defines how many components will fit in a given hull size.

"Tonnage structure" is the hitpoints of damage the component can take, and is not necessarily equal to tonnage space.

So hull size indirectly dictates hitpoints by limiting how much you can stuff into the ship.

[PvK]

Yes. The type of components on a ship can have a large effect on the ship's capacity to withstand damage. With many armor components, a ship will soak up much more than a ship of the same size without armor. This is even more true in a mod like Proportions, which has even stronger ship armor components - there gets to be a real trade-off between ships with more active but fragile and/or expensive components, and ships with more durable and/or cheap armor components.

In the standard game, the difference is still there but the effect isn't as great because armor tends not to be particularly strong compared to functional components, and is generally weaker than shields unless your opponent has shield-bypassing weapons.

PvK

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

---

Here's the module first tech level and then I'll list my concerns. Maybe someone can shed some light.

Name := Streamlining I
Description := Streamlining the hull decreases supply costs and increases agility.
Pic Num := x
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := -5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Vehicle Control
Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 1 Descr := Gives a 3% defense bonus in combat (only 1 component per ship effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 3
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

First question is the one component per ship rule, does that apply to the ability or the individual components? ie: will it stack with the defensive armor? In fact what if I want to allow more than one of this component?

Will a negative supply amount work?

How does the family number relate to 'show only latest' when designing a ship? Would it be better (if possible) to make a new family of say 'Hull Tech'?

---

Name := Streamlining I
Description := Streamlining the hull decreases supply costs and increases agility.
Pic Num := x
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Vehicle Control
Family := 9998
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 1 Descr := Gives a 3% defense bonus in combat (only 1 component per ship effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 3
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Some tweaks (in bold):
- Add the one-per-ship restriction.
- Change the family number so the "show latest" option works right.

Some can't do here's (in italics):
- The supply use. This component dosen't have any abilities that would trigger the supply use, and so it will never affect supplies.
In addition, SE4 tends to choke on negative supply use

Notes:
- Family number vs Show only latest:
If there are two components that are side-by-side in the design window of SE4, and they have the same family number, then don't show the first one.
This applies recursively, so you only see the Last in a block of same-family components.
- The ECM ability (and combat sensor ability) only stacks with other components if they have a different family number.

From the sound of it, you would probably be best off if you made a copy of the engine components, renamed them to "Streamlined XYZ Engine #", then added the abilities and reduced the fuel consumption accordingly.
Be sure to give them a unique family number unless you want them to cover up the standard engines when show latest is turned on.

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
From the sound of it, you would probably be best off if you made a copy of the engine components, renamed them to "Streamlined XYZ Engine #", then added the abilities and reduced the fuel consumption accordingly.
Be sure to give them a unique family number unless you want them to cover up the standard engines when show latest is turned on.

---

As an altenative you could have the streamlining give a boost to propulsion, without using any supply. Thus used in place of one engine the net result would be a decrease in supply use for the same speed. However what's going to end up happening is people are going to keep all six engines and the streamlining to get the extra speed. I think I like SJ's idea better.

Geoschmo

[EDIT] Unless you can make the Streamlining count towards the overall max number of engines. Then you wouldn't have them abusing it to get more speed. Would that affect the higher level engines though where all have to be the same kind to get the bonus? I am not sure.

[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Suicide Junkie]

If you want to increase the speed, you could try adding the ability from the fighter's afterburners... "Combat Movement", IIRC.

quote:

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So now I'm still left with the feeling that more hull size varieties are needed, but I believe we can't add ship sizes to the roster yet?

---

You can easily add new hull sizes... Just add stuff to "vehiclesize.txt".
You will have to reuse some of the existing images from shipsets (so your streamlined LightCruiser will look like a normal LC, or maybe a normal Cruiser)

Take a look at the Neoshipset standard, where the standard names for extended shipset images can be found.
I wrote a utility for expanding standard shipsets into the full neostandard set, which you may want to include with your mod... I'll post a link shortly, once I find where I put it.

EDIT: Its in my sig

[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[dogscoff]

I see what you mean. Good point.