AI concerns

neofit · #1 April 22nd, 2002, 02:37 PM

I have posted a thread Last week saying that the game was rather easy on the default settings. I have been given the advice to try the Hard settings.

So I have started a new campaign on the Hard difficulty, small Quadrant, Many empires, leaving the bonus on 'None' for the moment. The beginning was a bit tighter, a zealot neighbor kept harassing me right from the beginning with his escorts then frigates. I managed to live through it though and stood firmly on my feet. Then empires started falling one after another.

AI empires do not fight effectively, be they the attacker or on the defending end. They keep sending their fleets piecemeal, and generally have very little in terms of ship numbers. Then I started paying closer attention and found out why: the AI is completely incompetent. I invade a system and find 10 Miners Mk.I on planet with 4% in minerals. Next to it, in the same system, 6 research facilities on a 140% minerals planet. This is an extreme example, the rule is more like Mineral Mining on 40-70% planets, and research/intel on 100%+ planets.
[No wonder the local liberated population gets Happy/Jubilant a couple of turns after being liberated, like a thanks for ridding them of their previous incompetent rulers

]

How does one expect to build an empire with that? I now own 3/4 of the Quadrant (about 150 turns, I like to take my time, research the maximum before they are crushed, outfit mu ships with the newest), but I feel that since I started expanding out the security 1/4 that I amassed my forces and resources in, the game is more like a mopping up operation than a conquest.

AI hasn't gotten better in the war department either. It is about year My missile tactics still do wonders. 2 Missile light cruisers with 2 Flak ships do wonder. I haven't lost a single ship so far, in fact only had one receive two bars of damage only because I felt too lazy to reform my fleet to flat away from an already doomed enemy ship.

Another strangeness. I provoked a crew insurrection on a Colony ship in a sector that was 2 sectors away from my nearest outpost. The ship happened to be right next to a colonizable planet, next to 4 other planets already colonized by the enemy. I thought "wth, let's colonize it", it will be fun even if I it gets crushed the next turn. So I do it and start counting turns. 2 turns later I make a platform. 5 turns later I make a pace Yard III. 3 turns - flak ship; 4 turns - Missile Ship. Noone seems to care. Ships of two empires I am at war with cruised by, alone and in pairs yet nobody tried to destroy that colony, and now it's too late for them.

I thought about starting a new campaign giving the computer some bonuses. But 4% in minerals will still be 20% with maximum bonus. I am afraid it will give the computer an enormous advantage at the beginning, then be almost the same in the endgame.

Besides, does the bonus apply to all AI resources, the 'minable' ones as well as Research and Intelligence? I'd rather give the minerals bonus but nothing to research, since in my current game some races have Battlecruisers just like me, yet hardly enough resources to build them with.

Can the AI ferry population between the planets that reached their cap and newly colonized ones? I haven't seen any evidence of that so far, all their homeworlds are capped, and never saw an AI transport with population in it.

Are things like where does the AI build its facilities, the fact that it prefers sending ships piecemeal, etc., hardcoded in the game or it can be modified in a mod? If so, are there any mods where this AI behaviour is fixed? I would soo love to have to fight for every system, not just the first 5.

TerranC · #2 April 22nd, 2002, 02:54 PM

... Why don't you try making that mod yourself?

There are some mods that try to change that, and other things too, such as Proportions, P&N, and TDM modpacks (I think.)

Or you can just get the hang of the game and join PBW and play with other humans.

pathfinder · #3 April 22nd, 2002, 03:04 PM

I usually play either TDM-mod pak or devnull mod. in both the AI gets some pluses and are at least better. They always seem to nail me good. Then again, I do not build any fleet at all until someone declares war on me...then a defensive one until I have a small, scratch-fleet...

dogscoff · #4 April 22nd, 2002, 03:13 PM

Neofit, try these settings:

TDM modpack 3.1 + shadows patch

Manually select the following races and put them under computer control:
Rage, Aquilean, Drakol, Vikings, Xichung, Shadows and 3 more of your choice. No random AIs, no neutrals.

Large quadrant (Not ancient. Maybe spiral arm)
all warp points connected, warp points anywhere in system.

AI difficulty high, I'll leave the bonus and victory conditions up to you.

Let us know how you get on=-)

geoschmo · #5 April 22nd, 2002, 03:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by neofit:
I would soo love to have to fight for every system, not just the first 5.

THe other suggestions here will all give you a bit better of a challange. Or try playing against people. They'll give you a fight.

The worst human you will face in multiplayer is generally better than the best AI that can be modded in. Unless you give them some insane bonuses or something.

PBW

Geoschmo

Growltigga · #6 April 22nd, 2002, 03:51 PM

The worst human you will face in multiplayer is generally better than the best AI that can be modded in

Oh no, this is factually incorrect and I do beg to differ - have you seen me play?

neofit · #7 April 22nd, 2002, 03:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
Large quadrant (Not ancient. Maybe spiral arm)
all warp points connected, warp points anywhere in system.

How will it affect the outcome if I play on a Small Quadrant instead? I am having problems remembering the next day what my cunning plan was on a Small quadrant, I wonder how a Large one will play. Do we play in a Large one to give more 4% planets to the AI to build its mining facilities on ?

quote:
Let us know how you get on=-)

I'l be sure to whine when I get my behind kicked

neofit · #8 April 22nd, 2002, 04:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pathfinder:
I usually play either TDM-mod pak or devnull mod. in both the AI gets some pluses and are at least better. They always seem to nail me good. Then again, I do not build any fleet at all until someone declares war on me...then a defensive one until I have a small, scratch-fleet...

Been doing that on my first two Normal difficulty campaigns and tried on the Hard one, but a nosy neighbor didn't let me rest.
Besides in a Small quadrant with lots of empires I couldn't get far, like 4 systems, before I run into AI empires. Then these get colonized in a couple of dozen turns, and my people urge me for more vital space...

dogscoff · #9 April 22nd, 2002, 04:21 PM

quote:

Large quadrant

If you cram too many AIs into a small map it makes for a lesser challenge rather than a more difficult game (which doesn't at first seem very logical.) If you want to use a smaller map, use less AIs.

Thing is, most AIs like a few empty systems around them to develop into before they flick into "war" mode. Trust me, give them some space and you will notice an improvement. Once they start to develop they can be really powerful, and of course utterly relentless.

quote:

(Not ancient. Maybe spiral arm)

This is just to the amount of black hole, nebula and dead systems which can really cripple an AI.

quote:

all warp points connected,

AIs can handle being isolated, but not as well as a human can. Their research and production is better spent on weapons=-)

quote:
warp points anywhere in system.

Helps with AI navigation / resupply moronities.

[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

geoschmo · #10 April 22nd, 2002, 04:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Growltigga:
Oh no, this is factually incorrect and I do beg to differ - have you seen me play?

No G, I stand by my statement, even in your case.

The thing about the AI is even a well designed and challanging AI follows a script of predetermined actions and reactions. Once you become accustomed to that you can plan accordingly and defeat them every time.

A bad human player however is likely to pull many "bonehead" manuvers during the course of a game which appear aillogical, but still have to be accounted for.

Geo