AI concerns

Master Belisarius · #1 April 24th, 2002, 03:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lisif Deoral:

Anyway, every time that I want a challenging game against the AI, I like settings like this:

Just out of curiosity, how do you set up a challenging single player game?
My setup is usually like this:
TDM (latest -& Last- Version for SEIVv1.49)

(standard, unmodded) large quadrant

all warp points connected and located anywhere within the system

standard events (low/catastrophic)

high technology costs

low starting resources

1 average starting planet

empires are neither evenly distributed nor allowed to start in the same system

Low starting tech

2000 racial points

19 AI empires (loaded from saved race files)

no neutral empires, and no random empires

high computer player difficulty

no computer player bonus (I hate cheating AIs...)

simultaneous movement (and, obviously, no tactical combat)

The low starting resources and the high tech cost IMO help even the odds. The main (and insuperable) AI flaw is that it can't adapt to the situation. With limited resources it's harder for the human player to use his "special ability", that is, to quickly adapt to new AI strategies. On the other hand, the AI doesn't suffer much for these settings - it blindly follows the same research/production schedule.

Just as an example, in the initial turns of a solo game I was at war with two AIs which used direct fire weapons (Xi'Chung and Sallega, IIRC). I researched CSMs and easily managed to keep them at bay. Then, the Terrans decided to break our treaty, attacked my home system with carriers and forced me to start another game .
Probably in another game I might have had enough time (I spotted the carrier about 2-3 turns before it entered my home system) to research decent point defense and to build PDC ships/sats, but I hadn't enough resources (I did not expand much due to my 2 other hostile neighbours)...

Everybody have their own preferences, right? But think that the AI without any bonus, usually have problems managing their resources. Also, with so many AI players, my experience say that they have problems to expand their borders.

oleg · #2 April 24th, 2002, 11:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lisif Deoral:

no computer player bonus (I hate cheating AIs)

IMHO, it is impossible to get a decent game against AI without giving it a bonus. And I do not consider it as "cheating". It is just... bonus. The main concept of SE IV AI is that it does NOT cheat: it doos not know a priori where are you planets and ships, what you are building in your planets, etc. Just compare SE IV with for example Civ(1,2,3), Moo(1,2) and many other well known games. In fact, I consider SE IV, bonus or no bonus, as a most honest and ethical (well, I may be getting to far) artificial intelligence around !

Phoenix-D · #3 April 25th, 2002, 01:18 AM

"IMHO, it is impossible to get a decent game against AI without giving it a bonus. And I do not consider it as "cheating"."

Go play Proportions with a three planet start. Give the AI a high bonus. OWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW. It gives them over 100k extra intelligence, and that's just the start!

Phoenix-D

oleg · #4 April 25th, 2002, 02:19 AM

Well, this is exactly what I am doing for Last few weeks. Still, I refuse to consider this setting as AI cheating. I did accept 5x AI bonus as a legaly declared rule of this game. As such, it can not be considered as a cheat since it is not a break of explicitly declared rules defining AI opponents.

Lisif Deoral · #5 April 25th, 2002, 11:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by oleg:
IMHO, it is impossible to get a decent game against AI without giving it a bonus. And I do not consider it as "cheating". It is just... bonus.

Well... I simply define AI cheating as "it's able to do something impossible for humans"... like getting 5x resources and techs.

BTW: how do you manage to survive against high bonus AIs?!?!? even exploiting the AI flaws I don't think I would be able to resist...

Phoenix-D · #6 April 25th, 2002, 11:21 PM

Well, in my proportions game they aren't colonizing, and they aren't hitting me very hard with their ships, so eventually I'll pull ahead. That intel is getting to be a pain though- especially the order snafus. Those don't give a warning message most of the time..

Phoenix-D

oleg · #7 April 26th, 2002, 02:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lisif Deoral:

Well... I simply define AI cheating as "it's able to do something impossible for humans"... like getting 5x resources and techs.

BTW: how do you manage to survive against high bonus AIs?!?!? even exploiting the AI flaws I don't think I would be able to resist...

Well, let then define human cheating as "it's able to do something impossible for AI"... like tactical combat, swapping population between planets to make them all non-domed, massing figheters in space, constantly refine ship designs to optimize it against AI ships, making "combined arms fleet", etc, etc. In fact, since AI does not learn from one game to another, you shall not be permitted to learn any tricks either. Thus, the one and only one game when you or me or anybody else did not cheat was the very first one.

Putting all of it in perspective, AI bonus is an essential part of any strategic computer game and is not a "cheating" in any form.