Lords of Civilization

[Azeral]

Well, they're...Conjuration 9, Astral 7, Fire 3 or 4, and cost 222 astral pearls, so they need to become unwishable immediately. Why the hell would anyone bother casting them normally? I mean, sure, you get the other conjuration stuff along the way, but the other path gives you alteration stuff along the way and the other various powers of Wish.

This has absolutely swayed me toward powerful nationals becoming unwishable. This is a fairly clear cut case.

[Zeldor]

And it seems that Chayot change form is bugged. They retreat of first form loses 75% HP. From what you say they should change into another when getting killed [they surely do not change when they lose some HP].

[Azeral]

Also, I semi-rescind my notion of the case being absolutely clear-cut, because it appears that summoning a Chayot automatically comes with 4 non-commander Ophanim. At 59 gems a piece and able to solo ridiculous numbers of things each, the loss of two misc slots hurts a little but...uh...flying and map move 5, I'm pretty much just throwing them under the flying/6 Chayot and going wild. If nature blessing bypasses lifelessness, I think I have a new favorite strategy.

Edit: OH GOD WHAT. One of my Ophanim has the Awesome Presence heroic ability and now has Awe +10. Combat basically consists of entire armies refusing to hit him as he tramples through, and anyone who does bypass that has to deal with ethereality, 14 DEF, and then a metric ton of protection. And, for doing this, they get fire shielded.

[AlgaeNymph]

Something I've noticed while playing around with the Grigori in debug mode was that Azazel still likes to play around with the mortals, i.e. he'll occasionally sire a nephilim.

While I'm here, let's compare what we have with my predictions:

� Azazel (death, maybe earth and blood)
� Kokabiel/Baraqel (astral, maybe death)
� Araqiel (earth, maybe astral and nature)
� Chazaqiel (air, maybe water)
� Shamsiel (fire, maybe astral)
� Samyaza (because even though Armaros/Penemue has a more distinctive niche, Samyaza is too big of a name to pass up).

[Dedas]

I think everything should be wishable for, although it should come with some risks attached too it. For example, if you wish for "too much" (like great beings) the being might not like it and turn against you or you will attract horrors or whatnot.

[Endoperez]

Dedas said:
I think everything should be wishable for, although it should come with some risks attached too it. For example, if you wish for "too much" (like great beings) the being might not like it and turn against you or you will attract horrors or whatnot.

I don't like risks in Wishes, because paying 100 gems for nothing is just crushing. Except for Doom Horrors, but that's because they're supposed to be unique.
Instead, I'd like to have variation. As I said before, having several different angels under one common keyword and Wish for any of them producing one, but not necessarily the one you wanted. It'd be like wishing for Doom Horrors without the attacks and eventual disappearance. You might get a Seraph, or a Chayot or an Ophanim or an Angel of Fury (or something that's a bit weaker but still SC-quality, I don't remember Fury's stats). That'd be enough to make angels different from other beings, and I like the idea of would-be gods paying for the service of human and non-human angels.

I really wish these threads didn't keep popping up, because I feel a bit silly writing essentially this same post again and again. I feel like an ad campaign, "I want my Wish for angels".

[Dedas]

Fair enough. But what about this? The first time you wish it is risk free, the second it becomes a little more risky and so on. The reason: let's say that pestering the gods/forces with your wishes all the time pisses them off.

An addition to the above could be that if you wait a couple of months you are granted a risk free wish again.

[MaxWilson]

Azeral said:
Also, I semi-rescind my notion of the case being absolutely clear-cut, because it appears that summoning a Chayot automatically comes with 4 non-commander Ophanim. At 59 gems a piece and able to solo ridiculous numbers of things each, the loss of two misc slots hurts a little but...uh...flying and map move 5, I'm pretty much just throwing them under the flying/6 Chayot and going wild. If nature blessing bypasses lifelessness, I think I have a new favorite strategy.

I just checked and it does not bypass lifelessness. I'm not sure it matters, though. Either you're taking damage (probably from spells) or you're not.

-Max

[ano]

I think that Chayots should be unwishable as they are too expensive, but other nationals shouldn't. It just makes a nation way too powerful in the endgame if it has summons like Grigori which nobody else has access to.
So if Seraph is made unwishable, the races that have such endgame summons will have a terrific advantage which I don't think is correct. Somebody said recently (IIRC, it was thejeff) that late game should be balanced and every nation should have equal or nearly equal late-game abilities. Yes, it is boring, yes, the strategies are similar, but it is balancing and balance is a VERY important part of this game as well as any other one.