SE4 Strategy - An Art or a Science?

[mac5732]

Oleg, ROFL, most excellent

just some ideas mac

[PDF]

About French and Soviet equipment in WWII (that I do know quite well), I strongly disagree that they had "technological" advantages over German ones.
French and Soviet tanks had in fact better DESIGNS (more armor generally) and LOWER tech : guns were quite inferior in accuracy, optics were more crude, turrets were cramped, they had no radios (so the tank commander had to operate the gun AND read signals from the platoon leader !).
Adding to that poor training and tactics they generally lost in 40-41 ... French lost their war, Russia was able to stand due to large territory, industrial base, Western help and sheer will to not give up (and a quite dictatorial government that wasn't scared by sending millions to die...).

If you want an example of losing "hi tech" country in a war, rather take Vietnam...

[Growltigga]

or the American intervention in Mogadishu, Somalia? that is a classic example of how a high tech militaristic nation can get ahem...... soundly thrashed by its less than exemplary foes

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Growltigga:
or the American intervention in Mogadishu, Somalia? that is a classic example of how a high tech militaristic nation can get ahem...... soundly thrashed by its less than exemplary foes

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Soundly thrashed? The Somalian Campaign was a political failure, not a military one. The battle depicted in "Black Hawk Down" was at the time the largest number of US casualties in combat since Vietnam, and the main objective to capture the warlord failed, but at the end of the day as many as ten Somalis were dead for every one US soldier. Not exactly a "thrashing".

Another historical example of a technologically weaker foe defeating a stronger one would also be the colonies defeating the British Army in the American Revolutionary War.

Geo

[Gryphin]

oleg,
Thank you. I now have a Fresh / French joke to email around the world. I also have to once again explain to the woman in the cube next to me why I'm laughing so hard.

PDF: I humbly concede. Very clearly my sources were biased. I thank you for the correction

[Loser]

To Do list:

1. Get Religion.

2. Develop Magical Fairie Dance

3. Ditch Italy, France (sorry kids)

4. Locate Afganistan, Vietnam, avoid them

5. Stop blaming Hitler for... certain specific inadequcies of the Reich

6. Research Mean Coffee (a caffeinated beverage so advanced, it possesses an actual capacity for malice... world domination is sure to follow)

[mac5732]

In regards to supposedly inferiors beathing up on supposedly tech advanced counties, how about the following

British vs Zulu's (Isawanda)
Boer Wars
how about the Crusades, supposedly the Europeans were supposedly higher tech better armor, better stand up units, knights, etc,

just some ideas mac

[Krsqk]

Well, the Boer wars and the Crusades comes down to art, too. Tactics and mobility, with guerilla-like warfare, served to defeat technologically more advanced enemies. Just goes to show that you can win battles with almost anything. And if you can win enough battles, you can probably win a war.

[Master Belisarius]

Hey Geo, thanks for the kind words but think I'm only a good SE4 player.

Sorry if I come back to the original theme of this topic, right?
I will write some advice, but this don't want to be an exhaustive list.

First want to talk about few generic aspects of the SE4's science. Because are generic advice, I know that somebody could say: "But I did what you're saying, and anyway my *** was kicked!" "Or I did the opposite and had success!"
But SE4 is so rich, and the game settings so many, that would be hard to say an advice that could fit to all the possibilities. Also, some guys could differ a lot of my approach, and I respect that because think that like in the life, in SE4 does not exist the absolute "truth" (for this I like this game!).

1) In small galaxies, is not good pick racial traits like Organics, Temporal, Religious, etc. Usually is very difficult research enough to get some true advantage from them. In the other hand, think that the Advanced Storage is one of the more important.

2) I agree with the people who said that the bonuses to fire or elude a shot (Sensors / ECM / Aggressivenes / Defenssiveness /Training / Stealth+Scattering armors, etc), are the more important thing in every game, except: If you're fighting against a Religious empire inside a medium or large galaxy (then, if you don't kill them fast, the defenssiveness/ECM will be worthless), or playing high tech games against them.

The example about a race Raming your ships with Organic Armors III, well, is a good idea, but all the test that I did (for the Aquilaeian), had not good results: first you need a long time to research Organic Armor III, and second, these ships became near to useless, if the other empire use Ionic Dispersers (a very popular weapon and easy to research, must say). Also, think that is only an improved Version of a Kamikaze ship (after Ram with success 1 or 2 ships the ship usually die), and don't know anybody (including Ais and humans), that used Kamikaze ships with success. I can admit that at some point could be useful, (to surprise your enemy, for example), but not good to use as norm.

3) Because most the people use the PPB as main weapon, research shields at the start usually is not a good idea.

4) In the games that have played, usually the empires focused to combat bonuses have more success than the empires focused to build.
Sure, after amass a very big difference, the building empire could crush the other: but to do this you need time. Time to grow or time to research better sensors than your opponent or train your fleets, for example. But at the other hand, the other empire can do the same... then, although you could have massive fleets, sometimes is not easy keep your ships competitive.

Never I'm scared to know that my enemy have a lot more ships than me, of if I'm down in the numbers. I'm scared if know that my ships can't fight with success against them and he have enough minesweepers to clean my mines...

5) The missiles are only good for the very few turns. After your opponent can research PDC III, they are useless. A handful of LC ships with PDC can keep you safe of lots of missiles/fighters. I know that at some cases your PDC can be surpassed, but honestly I never had problems with the guys that like to play with fighters/missiles.

6) The best weapons in low tech games are: DUC, PPB, Shield Depleters, Ionic Dispersers. If later you can research other weapons (APP, WMG, etc), ok, but with these you have enough fun for awhile.

The Mines are a very good defensive weapon in the early game too: will buy time for you, and keep safe your planets from attacks of cloaked ships.

For players with Organics, Temporal, etc, sure the best option is research the related weapons with your racial traits, but you will need some time (sometimes a crucial time), to research it. For this reason, usually I only pick this kind of Racial Traits, in games with a large galaxy.

7) Don't send fleets with only attack ships into the Enemy Territory. The resupply ships, mine-sweepers, repair ships, Troop Transports, etc, are a vital element that need to be included to assure the success.

About the Art aspects, well, are more intangible than the science advices... for this reason are Art! And more hard to apply!
Still I think that a SE4 game is a lot more science than Art, but think that the small 10% can decide the battle when both opponents have similar knowledge about the science.

1) All the time check everything. Your situation, your enemies, the map, your ships vs enemy ships, the more important systems.

2) Keep one eye over your resources.

3) Have a research plan, but change it depending how the things are going on (for example, after see the strategies of your enemy).

4) Try to predict your enemy's actions.

5) The best defense is a good attack.

6) Try to surprise your enemy. Try to be always one step ahead him.

7) Determine your weakness and strong sides. Try to minimize your weakness and take advantage of your strong aspects.

8) Determine the weakness of your enemy and their strong sides. Try to maximize their weakness and minimize the efects of their strong sides.

Here an example of the Last 3 advices: against an enemy that had best sensors and aggressiveness / defensiveness than me, but their ships had not shields (because I had PPB), I surprised him with lots of cheap boarding ships (only FG), and it decided the crucial battle to my side.

9) Try to exploit an advantage at max. For example, if you have defeated the main fleet of your enemy, then if you can, go for the big targets (homeworlds, for example). Don't lose your time killing alone ships or pointless colonies.

10) Like other said here, in games with lot of human players, the political skills are a very important thing.
Usually is good be nice with the strong and rude with the weak... but sometimes is a best idea join forces with the weak against the strong... This is a tipical question of Art!
Exchange technologies/Populaiton if it's allowed (sadly, those games have started to be a bit boring to me: find an ally and exchange Colonizers, for example, is not funny to me).
Keep one eye over your "allies". Check where are their fleets and with who they have treaties. Sometimes you don't know from where will receive the shot!
Try to don't fight with everybody at the same time. Sometimes is good make concesions to survive.

Well these are some of my opinions... and as I said before, know that have not the complete "truth", and that is not a complete list, but maybe could help someone.

[Arbitrary Aardvark]

quote:

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Originally posted by Krsqk:
Well, the Boer wars and the Crusades comes down to art, too. Tactics and mobility, with guerilla-like warfare, served to defeat technologically more advanced enemies. Just goes to show that you can win battles with almost anything. And if you can win enough battles, you can probably win a war.

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The Boer's had comparable equipment to the British. In fact, some of their artillery was technically superior. The British had numbers though.