Hello everyone, and I could use some advice.

[Saulot]

Pretenders automatically spread dominion (you could consider it preaching, for free). It's on pg 92 of the manual.

Click on a temple in game to see what's spreading dominion, and by how much.

Also, since we're talking about a lvl 6 priest, he could raise to a theoretical maximum of lvl 12 dominion (13 with a temple). Though 10 is the actual limit of dominion.

Edit:

Offhand, the best comparison is probably another immortal, living pretender, a "Bakemono Kunshu" (unit 1428).

[Luckmann]

Saulot said:
Pretenders automatically spread dominion (you could consider it preaching, for free). It's on pg 92 of the manual.

Click on a temple in game to see what's spreading dominion, and by how much.

Also, since we're talking about a lvl 6 priest, he could raise to a theoretical maximum of lvl 12 dominion (13 with a temple). Though 10 is the actual limit of dominion.

Ach. I know you're not trying to sound condescending. It's like technical support. "Is the computer plugged in?" & "Is the monitor turned on?". I have been playing the game for a week or so. I was merely asking because of the way you said it, like it was a double-preach. As far as I know, the Pretender is more of a mobile temple (spreading the influence not only in the province, but outwards), while preaching only increases Dominion in the province in which it's done.

Second, are you sure that priest levels actually increase the pretender's inherent spread of dominion? Since pretenders weren't originally meant to have priest levels, I find such an effect highly doubtful.

Saulot said:Edit:
Offhand, the best comparison is probably another immortal, living pretender, a "Bakemono Kunshu" (unit 1428).

Thanks. I checked it out a bit and the only real similarity is that one fact that they are both living immortals. The Bakemono Kunshu have higher stats almost across the entire board, and have two seperate magic schools from scratch, which is important to take into consideration since it lowers the cost of raising said schools, wheras the Ecclesiarch only have one raisable school (by default).

[Saulot]

Luckmann said:
Ach. I know you're not trying to sound condescending. It's like technical support. "Is the computer plugged in?" & "Is the monitor turned on?". I have been playing the game for a week or so. I was merely asking because of the way you said it, like it was a double-preach. As far as I know, the Pretender is more of a mobile temple (spreading the influence not only in the province, but outwards), while preaching only increases Dominion in the province in which it's done.

Second, are you sure that priest levels actually increase the pretender's inherent spread of dominion? Since pretenders weren't originally meant to have priest levels, I find such an effect highly doubtful.

Er, sorry about it sounding condescending. When someone says new, it's hard to tell what that really means. Besides, there are lurkers who read the forums (a few who are very new), also I find it's better to answer as completely as possible, to limit follow-up questions. (Also, a weeks' worth of gaming can vary a lot as well. To some it's 5 hours, to others 50.)

Anyway, the priest level for the pretender wouldn't make his dominion spreading any more powerful, it would just mean that he could preach in addition to his normal spread, and in your case, with preaching would automatically raise dominion by 2 (or lower enemy dom by 2). He also wouldn't have any limit placed on how he high he could preach, other than the normal dominion limit of 10.

Luckmann said:
Thanks. I checked it out a bit and the only real similarity is that one fact that they are both living immortals. The Bakemono Kunshu have higher stats almost across the entire board, and have two seperate magic schools from scratch, which is important to take into consideration since it lowers the cost of raising said schools, wheras the Ecclesiarch only have one raisable school (by default).

This is true, he has nonhuman stats, but so does your guy. As for whether it's preferable to have two schools at lvl 1 or one school at lvl 2, that's entirely subjective, not the least of which is what the schools are in question. Furthermore, since each lvl you purchase is more expensive than the last, the difference between starting at lvl 2 vs. lvl 1 could be higher than the purchase cost of another lvl 1, if the end result you're looking for is a high lvl, such as 9, and the new pathcost isn't ridiculous like 80.

Anyway, the easiest way to balance something is to tweak a unit that already exists. Your unit is a bit too dissimilar to everything else, so that won't work. Other than me and others eyeballing it and coming to various conclusions (my own being that it's a bit overpowered). I'd suggest taking it for a test run. Or letting your friend play it in a MP game against you.

[Maraxus]

Ah, okay, I think I mixed up the preaching with the blood-sacrifice rules a bit.

I would say, he needs body etheral (and thus personal luck) to expand into indies but he still is an option as awake early-game pretender (btw I usually play with indi strength 7).

The question is, whether he is fixable overpowered (read: slightly to strong) or unfixable. I think, it's clearly the first, you just need to tune it down a little bit, or increase the price somewhat and it should work.

Decreasing the initial dominion to 2 would clearly be an option. Even base dominion 3 would make it "still powerful but probably okay", my guess.

[Luckmann]

Maraxus said:
Ah, okay, I think I mixed up the preaching with the blood-sacrifice rules a bit.

I would say, he needs body etheral (and thus personal luck) to expand into indies but he still is an option as awake early-game pretender (btw I usually play with indi strength 7).

The question is, whether he is fixable overpowered (read: slightly to strong) or unfixable. I think, it's clearly the first, you just need to tune it down a little bit, or increase the price somewhat and it should work.

Decreasing the initial dominion to 2 would clearly be an option. Even base dominion 3 would make it "still powerful but probably okay", my guess.

Ah, some solid advice. Yeah, I was thinking of simply lowering it to 2, since I do now realize that the potential spread of faith on a mobile unit can be quite powerful (I've primarily played with immobile pretenders, with high Dominion (6-8 minimum).

While it's entirely possible to do a potent pretender still, lowering it to 2 will be more or less the same as increasing the point cost. I'd even be willing to consider lowering it to 1, to put it on-par with other base human pretenders.

What would be the base cost of increasing Dominion from 2 to 4 and 1 to 4 respectively? I know it increases by 7 every time, but is that counting from 1 or from whatever base a pretender have?

[Aezeal]

basic fixes: (balance and flavor)

- lower holy level to 4
- remove awe
- CERTAINLY remove fear (seeing the pope eye to eye doesn't bring fear in my heart)
- remove pillage (the pope pillaging ??)
- remove AoE weapon for something powerfull but not AoE

then a lil upgrade
- give MR 18
(else he'll be soul slay food)

[Luckmann]

Aezeal said:
basic fixes: (balance and flavor)

- lower holy level to 4
- remove awe
- CERTAINLY remove fear (seeing the pope eye to eye doesn't bring fear in my heart)
- remove pillage (the pope pillaging ??)
- remove AoE weapon for something powerfull but not AoE

then a lil upgrade
- give MR 18
(else he'll be soul slay food)

- Lowering holy level to 4 have already been covered and is a definite no-no for previously mentioned reasons.
- Removing BOTH fear and awe would leave the Ecclesiarch with only Immortality and a number of schtick flavour abilities. Second, you're confusing Pope John Paul II with.. let's say.. Innocent VIII - the pope that appointed Tomás de Torquemada, with a personal retinue of "interrogators" to boot. Facing that, you'd either be very, very stupid, struck with awe, or scared to your wit's end, depending on your orientation; I assure you.
- Pope pillaging? It's far more likely than you might think. Again, this isn't a pope, or I'd actually name him Pope. His text explains his position more fully. And of course, it's not he himself that goes into the village and takes everything not nailed to a wall - he's got a retinue, which is the idea behind both the pillaging and the patrols. I was actually going to add Gluttony for this reason. But there's not a command for that.
- I had completely missed that it had an area of effect. Consider it changed (I guess I just glanced at it and figured that AoE:1 simply meant that it wasn't.. you know.. AoE.

[Maraxus]

To add gluttony, use
#supplybonus -X
A negative value creates gluttony.

As for the mobile dominion-thing: Sometimes, you are just stuck before an enemy castle with lots of summons inside that repair the walls, or it's early game and the defenders have good tower weapons are heavy armor and you have not yet researched the counter-tactics.

In this cases you might want to dominion kill your enemy instead of taking his last fortress(es), once you have all provinces. A god in front of that castle is quite good for that allready, a level 6 inquisitor likewise, I'd guess.

[Luckmann]

Oh, that's great. Awesome.
Update time. I lowered base Dominion to 2, gave him Fire Sling instead of Fire Flare (in light of the AoE-issue). It's got a much longer range, but much lower damage, accuracy, and no AoE. I also added Gluttony 14 (to account for the supposed retinue) and upped magic resistance to 16 - this would allow him to buff himself to 18-19 Magic Resistance if one goes for an Astral Bless strategy.

Edit: Also lowered HP to 16.
Edit2: I also added Encumbrance 2.