OT: HOMM V

[Edi]

HoMM4 became a good game once they got both expansions out and patched it to version 3.0, but at release it was an unplayable piece of crap that tried and failed spectacularly to steal a lot of features from Age of Wonders 1. Get the H3 & H4 Complete DVD. The experience with the new HoMM4 is light years removed from the first release crapware. I can vouch for that from experience.

HoMM5 has the biggest problem with the AI being slow and the graphics engine being slow. The AI is probably because the damn thing sees the entire map and evaluates everything on it before making moves, whether it can reach stuff or not. Load up an impossible sized Tribes of the East map and you can't play them with AI on, because turn resolution takes 20+ minutes.

The skill system in HoMM5 is pretty revolutionary compared to the old ones in the series, with much more choices. The problem with the original release was that you only had certain limited must-have choices and you only had one or two viable heroes for most factions. Tribes of the East revamped the skill system and enriched it a lot.

H5 does still have the same old killer stack and critical mass problems of earlier Heroes games, but they're not necessarily as bad anymore. A well designed hero, especially with the right spells if a caster, can wreak absolute havoc on even a large enemy army. I've gotten wiped out several times against the AI that way when I had the edge numerically and ran into something that had just the right things stacked on it.

[Agema]

HoMMIV was a bit of a disaster if you ask me. The new creation of heroes being in the battle was gruesomely misimplemented. It led to all sorts of problems.

HoMMV got rid of it, more of a rollback to HoMMIII. However, it still had several problems. Firstly, there are missions which send you all the way across the map, then you get a new mission which sends to back to another side of the map, and, well, let's just say spending turns doing nothing but traipsing an army from one side of them to another is frustrating.

The AI is crummy. It chucks a lot of units at you by way of compensation, but it's just slightly disappointing. Also, the game tends to devolve into going backwards and forwards until one massive battle between your biggest army and the enemy's decides the whole thing. Usually, considering the slightly cheaty AI, this means chucking small armies to grab castles whilst dodging his massive monlithic army(-ies). Eventually, you'll cause enough disruption to his troop building that you can build a huge army bigger than his. But to a large extent this means you've done nothing but spend hours - literally hours - running around not doing very much. All in all, the various level design weaknesses and gameplay problems make finishing every level seem like a chore that must be endured to get onto the next tedious task, rather than a satisfying attempt to fulfil an objective.

HoMM's problem is that ever since 2 they've been obsolete; the gameplay ancient, the AI effectively nonexistent. This can also be said of Age of Wonders, but AoW had a much better system - it's hard to justify HoMM4/5 in the light of what AoW achieved.

[Edi]

No disagreement there, but turn-based fantasy strategy is such a niche game market that often you take what you can get. As I said, H4 sucked out of the box. The Complete version is a good game, but still not as good as the original AoW in my opinion, especially considering how late it was done. But as with all of these, your mileage may vary depending on what you're looking for and your playstyle.

AoW2 and AoW:SM I never liked due to certain key features being removed that were present in the first one.

[DonCorazon]

I enjoyed AOW for a while, but never got into AOW:SM. Every now and then I re-install it, fiddle around, then delete it. I also have been doing the same with GalCiv2 - seems some games just have a hump you need to get over. I did the same with Dom 2 -- it wasn't until Dom 3 with its improved tutorial and manual that I was able to overcome that inertia of trying to learn the game.

[ghostwes]

The people who make GalCiv2, Stardock, are currently making a turn-based fantasy game. They tried to get the rights to Master of Magic, but could not, but I suspect the end product will be similar in scope.

[Omnirizon]

I loved MoO 1&2, but couldn't bring myself to love GalCiv. Something about it just ain't right; its close but it ain't quite there. It has polish, but it also has these superfluities and inconsistencies that I don't understand (not like X3's superfluities, but superfluities none-the-less). It also just lacks a certain appeal for me; I'm not sure what it is. I just can't quite make it work for me. The fact that on the open ship design system, none of the parts had the hardpoints perfectly centered (for example: if you placed, say, a bunch of a long straight piece together, by even the second one there is noticeable skewness) is kind of a metaphor for why this game doesn't work for me. It has a lot of great stuff, but they didn't take time to "center" it. I guess that's kind of the zen of it.

For that matter, I havn't found ANY software under stardock's label I can like. I tried really hard to, and even bought the membership for like 70 bucks, and bought four or five of their higher rated games (not including GalCiv, which I bought separately). All of them tried hard to be good, but just lack a certain something. In the end I've spent over 100 bucks at stardock, and don't like any of it. It all looks good and shiny, but none of it just works for me. In the end I'd rather have used that 100 bucks to buy several months of subscription to an MMORPG or something; at least I'd enjoy that for a little while before I got sick of it.

I loved MoM too. I know GalCiv was the spiritual successor to MoO, but I hope that whatever they come up with as their successor to MoM is better than GalCiv was for me.

[MaxWilson]

Omniziron,

My experience with Stardock was almost exactly like yours. For all of Dom3's lack of graphical shininess, I think it's a much more complex (and fun, for me) game than GalCiv (I also spent lots of money and never really played the games I bought). I like the idea of a MoM sequel and I hope they do a good job, but I doubt I'll prefer it to Dom3.

-Max

Edit: Note to Shrapnel. I'd be glad to spend more money on Dominions stuff if there was anything to buy. Like scenarios, for instance. (Dawn of Dominions is a great one.) As is, I've bought two copies of Dominions 3 but that's it.

[Randvek]

Edi said:As I said, H4 sucked out of the box.

HoMM4 was the first game I ever purchased that had fairly significant parts of the manual that said something to the effect of this doesn't work right now, but this is how it'll work once we add it in a patch. Boy was that an eye-opener.